Quote:

Yes; I would like to be more creative and make the site somewhat different thant MRC. My idea is to focus everythin on each game or program. For example: let's say you are intrested in Metal Gear 2: so you go on to MSXDirect, search for it, and find every resource available on that page, including forums, maps, screenshots, tricks ... remakes if avaialble. I'm going to try and focus on this point, but I'm not going to set a limit on that.

This sounds like a great idea and certainly unique. However, you can do this succesfully without providing links to illegal software.

On a side note, just posting screenshots is already an infringement of intellectual property, one that is commonly tolerated, but still... If you in addition to that provide a link to the actual software, there might be serious trouble.

There are hundreds of shady 'rom sites' and there's always IRC, Usenet, Kazaa, etc... Nobody needs your page to find ROMs. If you want to turn your site into something respectable, get rid of the ROM links, simple as that.

My challenge of the day: anybody who is too dumb to find MSX warez is not worthy of MSX at all

I think it's a bit strange to say warez kept MSX alive. It's warez that actually killed part of the MSX scene. When I joined Flying Bytes and we released PSG-Tracker, I actually saw people copying that product the next fair. I can assure you that's highly demotivating. True, many people kept using the MSX because emulators and software are/were easily available. But how many companies and community-developers stopped because of extremely low sales?

Besides, it's the MSX Community that kept the MSX alive. Active developers who still use a lot of spare time to develop new products that show the power of MSX. CF interfaces, Meridian, Bombaman, Cat 'n Mouse etc. etc. etc.

Keeping MSX alive is a matter of contributing to the community. Making new hardware, new software or websites that add (valuable) information previously unavailable are ways to contribute to the community. Of course, you can also support the community by showing your appreciation to the people that are developing new products. Show them you like their products!

I don't see the MRC and MSX-Direct as 'enemies'. (I don't like thinking this black and white), but that doesn't mean we can promote your website in newsposts and in our links database. Also, you don't need our permission to become the number one MSX site in the world However, as we all know MSX is becoming commercially interesting again in Japan, which could drastically change the attitude of the MSX Association and former MSX-developers towards the availability of warez on the internet.

Last but not least, from the latest explanation, most of the things you want to do with xydirect are already implemented (or to be implemented) in the new Generation MSX, which already has a huge database of games and screenshots (without warez! ). One might consider helping Generation MSX instead of doing the same efforts twice, resulting in two (or more) similar websites that could have been even better with some co-operation.

Uhm... I agree with snout

Indeed, warez killed MSX commercially. The fact that right now warez is keeping a small group of people to MSX, and introducing mainly Metal Gear Solid fans to MSX, does not make it right.

Adding the information of game tips, reviews, etc to the Generation MSX database is indeed a good idea. At least some sort of cooperation can save both of the sites a lot of trouble.

But, whatever you do, warez is not the way.

Though I couldn't agree more to the things already said. It's sad to see that JEames didn't take part in the discussion. I'm afraid that his good spirit and motivation to create has just been flushed down the drain.

So in order to get things straight I'd like to say that I really like and respect every new initiative taken by MSX'ers. Ofcourse as long as the main goal or main means isn't spreading warez. I think that counts for all of us.

So maybe you can reconsider the purpose of MSX direct JEames and then become a great or the greatest MSX website! Let all this discussion bring on the fire within you to come up with the greatest website AND added value of all time

Oh.. Sorry, I didn’t want look like I don't want to take part in the discussion. It's just that I was busy out of the office (some times I have to spend some of my time working! ).

The truth is I didn’t intend to create a discussion about msx-warez or not. I'm just trying to team up some people and build up a proper website where user activity is not just limited to software downloading.

But, as now the topic is MSX-Warez, let me make my point:

Obviously it is very hard to value the harm and/or benefits warez has done to the MSX along the time... In the past, when you could go to any shop and by a MSX cartridge I have no doubt warez did harm. As much as the harm all warez does to any commercial product. That has a name and is called piracy. But today you can't go to a shop and by "The Maze of de Galious". If you are interested in any old MSX software you are down to search it on warez sites. There is no other alternative. What benefits are companies like Konami making out of old MSX games? -Clearly the answer is none.

So who am I harming by making available all the MSX software to who ever is interested? -I think I am promoting MSX, because with out this software, honestly was is MSX system? -Yes... there's legal software around; but the main interest is on those programs that we all now and that are copyrighted.

By the way, at the end of my website there's a note I would like to mention here:

Quote:

All games offered for download on this site are copyrighted. This means it is, strictly speaking, actually illegal for me to make them available, and illegal for you to use them after download. However, the games mentioned have not been profitable for such a long time now, that I'm willing to take the risk involved and go ahead and do it anyway. Under different circumstances I would respect copyright, so if you are, or if you are representing a game's copyright-holders, and you object to this line of reasoning, please e-mail me about it and I will remove the game in question from the site (please keep in mind though, that quite a few people enjoy re-living the old days and will be unable to legally obtain your game!).

Well... I've never, in the 4 years my site has been online, ever got any message from anyone about taking any game of the web site.

To be honest, if Konami came to me asking to take off all there software it would be a shame and probably I would'nt continue working on all this... This can happen, and it's a risk I'm taking but I don't think Konami realy cares about a site that has 400 visits a day. They sell out hundreds of thousands of games every day, so what's the point in fighting a small comunity that does no harm to their buisness?

To finish this large message, I insist that I understand the MRC policy. But someone has to offer what MRC won't and I think I'm in a right position to do this.

Anyway: If there's any coders/webdesigners/content managers that would like to team up to make a new MSX site just send me an email: msx@getput.com

Best regards!

JEames, ever heard of EGG? They're selling old MSX software legally and commercially. You said you never ever received a request for deleting files on your site? I ask you to reread the thread. Snout has stated msx.org IS being watched by former MSX companies and msx.org has recently been into a legal conflict with one of the old MSX companies.

The fact you never got an e-mail is probably because your site isn't known that well, no offense here by the way....Now that you're posting it in the msx.org forums, I can assure you, you have seriously enlarged the possibility you WILL be contacted.....

Nope, I've never heard of EGG; and I don't think I have any of their software on my website. I've read all the thread, and may be former MSX companies are watching... but I've never had any news from them. Regarding popularity, I don't think my site is "unknown" in the msx community. Comparing nedstat traffic counters I would say that MSXDirect wasn’t very far from MRC until the forums and other improvements were made to MRC a few months ago. You can check that easy looking at these two graphs:

http://www.nedstatbasic.net/s?interval=day_permonth&tab=1&link=2&id=278731
http://www.nedstatbasic.net/s?interval=day_permonth&tab=1&link=2&id=773419

Both sites get most of the traffic coming from google search engine. In this point MRC is much better indexed than MSXDirect because there is much more content to index.

I now it sounds a bit like if I was setting a sort of competition, but it's not my intention: the fact is that MRC is a very good model of self maintained website and that's exactly what I am aiming... besides the fact MRC is the nº1 English MSX site.

If I am contacted, well, I'll be happy to discuss what ever they have to say to me... and if legal action is taken, the site will have to be closed down. As simple as that. I'm not going to fight Konami, am I? -But until then, many people will be able to enjoy games and programs that in other ways are more difficult to find. I am not harming anyone but my self, so what's all the fuss about this?

It might not be a bad idea to educate yourself about Project Egg.

The fact that you have software available on your site might make a company to decide against putting their old MSX software available through Egg, because it's pirated all over the place anyway. That, is extremely harmful to the future of MSX.

Saying you've never had news from (former) MSX companies does not mean there's nothing new. If you would've followed the news as reported here on MRC a bit more closely (like anyone TRULY interested in MSX would do), you would've known about the renewed commercial interest in MSX.

I don't know what 'msx community' you're referring to, but I get the feeling it's a different one from the one I (and many thousands of others) belong to.

If you truly had a heart for MSX, you'd say NO to piracy. Copy = crime, and you're guilty.

Well, I've made my point about old wared and the piracy theme. Sorry we have different opinions, but that has nothing to do about beeing a MSX user or fan and enjoying old time games.

There's some thing else I have'nt said: 3 years ago, with the mobile phones sales raising I would have said that MSX had a chance to be comercial again (wouldn't you love to play Metal Gear 2 on your Nokia?). Unfortunately that chance was lost: right now phone CPUs and memory are thousands of times faster and larger than our old MSX. To be honest I don't think there's a comercial future for MSX (sorry, I now that hurts!).

Anyway: that's just my point of view. I might be wrong. Time will say.

Hey, I don't see the point on getting nasty about this. We are all MSX Fans... with diferent opinions.

Good, now for my opinion in my well-known dual way:

In the early days many people were guilty of copying games a lot. It may have been a good idea at the time for them since that was the only way to get many titles without paying (much) for it. It's illegal and we had to pay for that with the way premature ending of commercial MSX in Europe. Many titles were put online on the net on several locations (I really don't know how many and where exactly) and even though it's illegal, it did reactivate people who used MSX in the past and even got people who never heard of MSX to start using it. The latter is mainly done by the coming of MSX emulation programs (like the CJS MSX(2) emulator, fMSX and MSX4PC and later some more like RuMSX, NLMSX, openMSX and of course the official ASCII MSXPLAYer). The coming of new MSX enthousiasts is always a good thing for the MSX community, even though many people will discuss the way they came in contact with MSX in the first place.

Warez for any system (not only MSX) is illegal and because of MRC policy and the fact software companies who made MSX software in the past are frequent visitors of the MRC we do not allow sites with mainly or only illegal material. As you may have noticed in this thread already many people can't wait for a revival of MSX to come and MRC posts quite some news about it.

Even though many MSX enthousiasts have (re)found their way to MSX I agree asking for warez or providing warez is illegal and is not allowed on the MRC in any way (links, news, forum, whatever other means available on MRC). It's not only the right thing to do, but also for our protection.

Hmm... So EGG is selling MSX games ...


Let's do it as well !!!!!


P-)


(just kidding)

JEames, you don't believe in a commercial future for MSX? It's already happening, dude. I do wonder if you follow the news about the 'MSX Revival' at all. It seems like even if I press Project EGG or the MSX Association activities in your face, you still don't know what I'm talking about. I fully agree with GuyveR800 here.

You think we shouldn't make such a fuzz about it? I think we should. We should discuss this until the end, it's an essential and very important issue.

And please also dig into our newsarchive: you will notice that konami released many of their old msx games for mobile phones in Japan (for now). They are made in Java for Mobile phones. If you look what´s happening at the moment in europe, you will notice that companies like Vodaphone also signed contracts with Taito, Sega and many others to release their old 8 bit games on mobile devices.

ou can find this news also in our archive. Please dare to say again that companies don´t have any interest in their old games. It´s simply not true.

Shutting down your site by legal order, and all the penalties involved won´t happen right away by the legal copyright owners. And it won´t happen too with only a few visitors. But it will happen when your site gets the traffic you want it to have.

Capcom already sued some sites. It´s just a matter of time before other companies will follow.

Msx.org doesn´t want to be associated with any illegal sites, content etc. Because we personally had some issues in the past with some Japanese companies already we will stick to this policy.

Another thing is that I really welcome any additional effort for the MSX community. To bad our calls for help to make this site even better aren´t answered, people rather try to invent the wheel again themselves. So many people started enthousiastic with their own wheel, just to find out that maintaining a community site with one person (themselves) doesn´t work in the long run. That results in a dead sites, and people with good skills who eventually stop doing anything for MSX, because they felt left alone.

Ah well, my mother always say people are stupid because we all have to make the same mistakes to learn from it in the end.

Good luck.

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My challenge of the day: anybody who is too dumb to find MSX warez is not worthy of MSX at all

saw your vote GuyveR800 :

3-0 Metal Gear - Firebird (Hinotori)
3-0 Aleste 2 - Xak 2
2-1 YS 3 (Wanderers from YS) - Usas
1-2 Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake - SD Snatcher

Dit you realy own or owned the original sd snatchter back those days ?? (or even now ??)
There were only a few who owned a original sd snatcher in europe
but every msx veteran played this game back those days.

That is the point in my last post, all are talking about warez is bad but did every one who voted have or had the original sofware.... don't think so.
So i'm not telling warez is no problem, not at all... yes i think it killed the european market in the '80 but i think it can help the "revival" of msx.
And yes... the copyright holders are right but a little too late... i think.
But than again this (a piece of) is my opinion.

Ok. About MSX revival project. May be I haven’t followed close enough all the information published on MRC, so if I'm mistaken just correct me:

The last big MSX developments (basically Konami and other major game industries) were done 10 or 15 years ago. That is an eternity in computer entertainment. So: if some big company decides to re-promote the MSX system, what ever they are promoting, will certainly NOT be the MSX system but a new system capable of executing the old ROMs and software. Well... and what do we have now? PCs with linux or windows capable of executing MSX software via emulator. You can even find emulators that work on PDAs and that’s just so close to a mobile phone that it make’s no sense to reinvest on a new system. So: what's the point in reintroducing MSX? -Purely a commercial and marketing manoeuvre; trying to get the enthusiastic people that has a good opinion of the word “MSX” but what ever they do now, it won’t be no where near what we all have in mind for a MSX computer.

Newer games and developments for small devices will and are been developed for much more advanced hardware than the old Z80 and similar. So where in this scenario is a place for our old MSX and all it’s software? –May be in Japan they got a few mobile devices with MSX software working, but that’s the past. No one will invest now on that kind of platform when mobile hardware and software are years light from the old MSX.

So, and getting back to the initial point: why game industry can have any interest in old software developed 10 years ago? –I just can’t see the reason. They might want to remake the same games with new technology but I think the old msx versions are really useless for them.

Apart from all this is the strictly legal issue. Yes, I now warez and piracy is illegal. But I am not making nor going to make any profit from it, so honestly I don’t feel guilty about it. In any case it is really my problem. If copyright holders have any interest in closing down my site it will be closed.