Why don't we try to cooperate better.
Oke msx.org is trying there best but are we waiting for the first sheep to cross?
the first persone who's gona change the perspect we are working from??

so

endjoy the discusion,

Lord Zett

Lots of people are cooperating, why aren't you?

Hmmm I've been browsing a lot of old MCMs, MCCMs and diskmagazines lately. People have always been complaining that there is not enough co-operation. I, too, think we'd better stick together and the MRC is working hard to offer a platform which gives every visitor of the MRC the opportunity to meet fellow MSXers, start new projects, launch new ideas and... more to come It's up to the visitors of our website to use these possibilities, and I think we made several large steps towards that already. Look at how Meridian advanced, the fMSX/60 emulator, the 20th anniversary demo, ....

I'm not saying those products would not have been there (in these forms) without the MRC, but I'm sure the MRC is having a very positive effect on developers of MSX software, hardware and related products. We have several ideas about to be launched which could even increase this effect. All suggestions are welcome.

However, the question is.. why are people still not co-operating like madmen? Well.. here are a few explanations:

1. In every human being there's an element that shouts 'I can do everything perfectly well on my own!'. It's a bit against nature to depend on the help of other people. Your pride is at stake here. Luckily, a lot of people are putting these thoughts aside

2. It's scary to approach people you don't know yet. Will they like your ideas? Will they think you are good enough to start working together? Would you still be able to give your opinion on things, and get things done your way, or are others totally over-ruling you? Are you prepared to do things differently than you originally planned, to keep the project going? You will never know unless you try. Like Wolf stated quite some times before in other threads: A project could benefit from a project manager.

3. Although the internet has removed many barriers, language can still be tricky, especially when discussions get all technical.

4. Creating a large demo or game takes a lot of time. You will not immediately see results instantly. Coding a demo or game is more than just glueing some music and gfx together. It takes time and a lot of thinking and planning. In an average game-engine there are a lot of processes going on, and many many events could happen, triggering all kinds of other processes. Bugs can be everywhere

5. Although a lot of developers make stuff 'just for themselves to enjoy', many people only want to develop programs when there's an audience. Before actually starting development it would be nice to know people are really going to buy (or download) your product. The amount of visitors on the MRC and the monthly downloads top 10's clearly show the audience is still there, waiting eagerly for new products. However (as we've been discussing before) it's also important for a developer to receive positive feedback. I urge everyone to let MSX developers know you care. Send a nice e-mail, start (or respond in) a nice forum thread, offer your help etc. etc. etc. Response like that is the ultimate motivation people need to create even more.

I'm not afraid to make contact people .
It is my work to contact people.

so if there is anyone how wants my help please mail me and I will help.

I was going to write something about it in another thread but here in "revival" it might be more appropriate. I must admit I have a lot of reading up to do about the status of what is going on in Japan. Let me first give a little introduction about my point of view...or better: where i stand.

By request of Latok I joined the meeting a couple of years ago with the Japanese delegation (without nishii) that wanted to discuss the revival project. I also subscribed to the newsgroup that was created afterwards to get things rolling. I was - and am - very, very sceptical about the entire revival idea. I understand the MSX-PLAYer and something called Project EGG has started in Japan and has some 10.000 customers, so let me first get this straight, a number of 10.000 is commercially zilch..not interesting except perhaps to resell 15 year old software again. Nevertheless it could be a good start, but I'm still sceptical. I take it the grand idea still is to get new life blown into the idea that the MSX-Standard is. With that I would not consider new product by the people that never left, but new people...developers as well as "audience".

So, in my eyes, MSX so far is still a "dead" system, with which I mean commercially defunct. Something I want to make absolutely clear is that in no way am I - with that remark - judging the things some hobbyists do on this forum. When I first heard people were still making stuff for MSX I will admit I laughed and thought "sheesh what a wacko's" or something similar but seriously, if it's your hobby and you enjoy it who am I to judge, on the contrary, I can only respect the effort these people put into their hobby.

Now that's enough introduction, now my question: are we going towards a possibility where new MSX games made by you hobbyists might get adopted by this Japanese "movement" and could that help build the revival project? And is this (these new game projects) the thing where zett is complaining about? I can relate to the idea that there are opportunities but nothing serious is being done, I had that feeling in the months after that meeting I talked about, but is that the case?

Now, again a disclaimer: I realise I am badly informed and I will do some research that could easily answer my questions...but it would be interesting to get some input here either.

Many amateur-projects are 1-shot projects. A lot of routines and development processes are custom made for the project, resulting in: (1) a lot of wasted time on each project, (2) big chance of loosing overview and creating a big mess.

I've seriously been thinking about a demo/story system to be used on msx, made on PC. And ok, it's some work yes, you need a nice editor for that, and as a perfectionist, it should look like Premiere or something. But what would be the alternative..? Hand-syncing everything in db tables in asm ?
Which option is better?
1: spend half a year on handy development tools
2: inmediately start coding on the msx, in a single-shot-style.

I'd say: option 1 ..

Devtools on an msx are not powerful enough (I wish that even my favourite DD-graph AGE would have been a larger-scale app), and typical devtools on PC are aimed at PC limitations.
I'd say: coders, unite! Appreciate the pc for how it can assist you in making games and devtools, and get of that world where msx games have to be made on an msx itself. Even Konami used other computers than MSX to design their MSX games..

hemm long text in english not my best part jet but my vision:

I dont think a one chip msx will do the trick .
I more think that a new standard white compateble whit msx 1 and 2(+) whill be the key to sucsexs and that there will be a new standard not like msx turbo r than but more like the msx 1 idea .

And trying to make a old system live again wil be a dream a werry big dream for ol the msx ers ho are left now.
olso my dream...
but the nishi idea is not my vision .
and yeahh I want to create a lot of msx games becours i like it

-nederlands(beter lees baar)-

ik denk niet dat msx op een chip dat dat de mensen zal overhalen
ik denk dat een standaard zoals de msx 1 en 2(+) de sleutel tot sukses zal zijn
sukses valt beter te halen uit een nieuw copateble standaard dan uit een een geproduseerde systeem zo als msx turbo r.

an het proberen om in een oud systeem leven tekrijgen is een droom voor alle msxers die zijn overgebleven
ook mijn droom
maar de visie die door nishi nu is gegeven is niet mijn pat die ik daar voor zouw begaan
en ja ik zouw graag een hele bult msx gamez maken omdat ik het leuk vindt en makelijk simpel.

greetz,

lord zett

Quote:

-nederlands(beter lees baar)-

You're joking, right? ^^;

MrRudi: zett's complaints have nothing to do with the MSX revival, AFAIK He's just a really enthusiastic guy that moves really fast and nobody can keep up with.

And 10.000 customers to Project Egg are better figures then the sales figures of some XBOX games.

Quote:

And 10.000 customers to Project Egg are better figures then the sales figures of some XBOX games.

In Japan, that is. Although I'm sure some ps2, gc and Xbox games won't sell more than 1000 in either Europe or USA.

*cough* Gradius III/IV for PS2 *cough* only a handful of copies sold in Holland. Bombaman will probably do better

and I can personally say there's a lot of cooperation already. For example Bombaman (again), quite a few people from #msx have helped improving the game and we also found one crewmember via #msx. A lot of people are involved in openMSX (be it fixing small things or adding lots of stuff). #msxdev is the place to be if you just want to get some tips from experts. And I could give lots more examples.... So, there's a lot of people cooperating, it's just a matter knowing where to found people who might be willing to help in one way or another.

heem yeah baby yeah