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MSX revival for me is new software or new hardware. It is not homemade demos, games made with sprite rips and the resseling of old games for playing in bad emulators, old games that I already have the originals from 10-20 years ago.

There IS going to be new hardware very soon (MSX-GR), and there WILL be new games (Guru Logic). It is just that they take time to make, so don't expect them instantly on your door mat

Also, not everyone will have those originals from 10-20 years ago, or be willing to pay the price they currently go for on eBay.

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WHAT? Are you encouraging piracy? Are you promoting piracy? This goes against everything you said on several other posts. This prooves that you really don't care about piracy, and the only reason for getting rid of the links to warez sites is that you don't want the game companies to know about them, so you can still use them do download your illegal stuff.

Getting rid of warez sites links means: not promoting them. If someone mentions Funet implying that warez can be found that it is clear to me what the purpose is. However, Funet is far from 'just a warez site'. Funet is so to speak an overview of MSX history, and a great resource for MSX documentation, utilities, game covers, etc. etc. However, if the Funet owners will get complaints and legal action threats about the MSX section, chances are they will say to get rid of the whole section alltogether, which would be a shame because even if not considering the many files which are not illegal, there is stuff on it that will *never* be rereleased, just because it's so bad and old and been released on cassette tape, just barely salvaged from being lost into history. I don't want all that to get lost.

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I really don't want funet to continue pirating msx stuff that is being sold by project EGG.

I agree. However, I think that should be an action the Funet MSX maintainer has to make, and not be forced by legal actions. Another thing is, as long as those Project Egg games are only sold in Japan, I personally can accept those still being there for download. However, especially after Project Egg or a similar initiative goes 'worldwide', I really think those specific files should be removed from Funet.


~Grauw

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So, that never withheld me from admiring Japan, 'the walhalla of MSX' in the past, and I don't see why it should suddenly become an objection I can't overcome.

I admire Japan too, why would I stop admiring the place where BURUSERA comes from? Just saying they are really not very interested in the world outside their country.

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How does Nishi take money from you?

Where exactly I said that Nishi took money from ME? What I said is that Nishi saw an opportunity to make some money from the msx users again.

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>>WHAT? Are you encouraging piracy? Are you promoting piracy? This goes against everything you said on several other posts. This prooves that you really don't care about piracy, and the only reason for getting rid of the links to warez sites is that you don't want the game companies to know about them, so you can still use them do download your illegal stuff.<< Getting rid of warez sites links means: not promoting them. If someone mentions Funet implying that warez can be found that it is clear to me what the purpose is. However, Funet is far from 'just a warez site'. Funet is so to speak an overview of MSX history, and a great resource for MSX documentation, utilities, game covers, etc. etc. However, if the Funet owners will get complaints and legal action threats about the MSX section, chances are they will say to get rid of the whole section alltogether, which would be a shame because even if not considering the many files which are not illegal, there is stuff on it that will *never* be rereleased, just because it's so bad and old and been released on cassette tape, just barely salvaged from being lost into history. I don't want all that to get lost.

Now that is word twisting. Don't talk about it and it will go away. But keep using it. The content of it is, in most part, warez. But putting almost all msx soft on-line for free is ok if it has technical documments together. Very unfair. Or putting almost all msx soft on-line for free is ok because this WAREZ FTP is on-line since the beggining of internerd, or making it available and calling it "msx history" is really a lousy excuse for piracy. Like funet, there are several other msx warez providers that should be closed down. So, if I make a warez site with the same docummentation on funet, it will be ok. Good trick for pirating software.

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>>How does Nishi take money from you?<< Where exactly I said that Nishi took money from ME? What I said is that Nishi saw an opportunity to make some money from the msx users again.

You said: "That's why I can't see a "revival" just beacause Nichi, wich forget what msx was until the time when he found out about the user groups and decided to take some money from them."

Sorry, I thought you were an MSX user....

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>>>>How does Nishi take money from you?<< Where exactly I said that Nishi took money from ME? What I said is that Nishi saw an opportunity to make some money from the msx users again.<< You said: "That's why I can't see a "revival" just beacause Nichi, wich forget what msx was until the time when he found out about the user groups and decided to take some money from them." Sorry, I thought you were an MSX user....

Yes, but you are trying to twis my words. I will explain like you have 5 years old:
1- I said that Nishi saw a good opportunity to take money from msx users again.
2- That means that he will get some money from some msx users, not from all msx users. No msx users has the obligation to buy new stuff from them. But at least someone will and at least he will make some money from it.

As you can see, this does not mean that nishi will get money from every msx user on earth. Now quit whining.

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But putting almost all msx soft on-line for free is ok if it has technical documments together. Very unfair.

At what point did you forget my saying that I agree that "I really don't want funet to continue pirating msx stuff that is being sold by project EGG."???

THAT, my friend, is what I call twisting words.

As for the rest, ofcourse every copy of a game you did not have the legal right for is an illegal copy, however I consider something piracy if it is copied while you can legally acquire it. So, my wish is for all software currently sold on Project Egg to be removed from Funet. However, I most definately do not want the whole site being taken down, because of the historical value (cassette game example I gave), and the huge collection of documentation, game covers, utils, etc. That is my opinion on this. Period.

This, however, is a seperate thing from MRC's policy on not supporting warez sites (which I also support). Those sites contain only illegal stuff, and MRC can't be expected to check every such site on whether it contains software actually being sold on Project EGG or elsewhere. It would just be too much to go through a whole site for that, and having to go through it again everytime when it is updated, or Project EGG starts selling new titles. Anyways, this is just a policy (they do not force anyone into anything), and the reason for it is to prevent PIRACY, and not so much downloading old (yet still illegal) software.

Funet being linked in the MSX links is a bit odd in the light of that policy. However, it is always a choice which has to be made by balancing the good and the bad, and in the case of Funet they decided that it was such a valueable resource, that they should not remove the link.

An example. If I were to place a copy of GEN80 on the MAP (MSX Assembly Page, a resource for MSX Assembly programmers), it would technically spoken be illegal for me to do so. However, as the software hasn't been sold for years (and I doubt it will again), it is not a matter of piracy. Would I however place a copy of Compass there, of which the developers are still active and of which a copy can still be acquired legally, I bet hell would break loose and I can forget my MRC link, or any support by others for the MAP, for that matter.

Do you understand?


~Grauw

p.s. please reply in single messages if you can (edit if you must), and don't make horribly long quotes. It makes things easier to read, especially the latter thing.

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>>>>>>Just as cool as it was 10 years ago!! When everybody was playing (and finishing!) SD-Snatcher in japanese, and the Xak series and and and...<< JUST as cool?? it's 100x cooler if i can follow the story and the dialogs. i don't believe you if you say its equal as cool. why are we waiting for a ICITY translation? because we can't play it decent.<< Yeah, just as cool as 10 years ago. Because 10 years ago there were no english translations of these games. 10 years ago everybody imported (or pirated ^^ japanese games from japan, and played them IN DAMN JAPANESE!!! But then again, you weren't born then... << PFF, i wasn't born? i was already playing with the poke between my legs by then AND playing the games in japanese. But when i finally got the readable english versions, i played then again with much more joy, and i finally understood what the game is about. seems to me you really don't care about the story of SD-Snatcher, which you CANNOT read of you cant read japanese and playing the japanese version.

i totally agree with darq

playing those japanese games sucked at all. they was beautiful (i am waiting for a Rune Worth complete trans.) but boring to. I only played that crap because I and my party don't have nothing better to do

It was delicious when emulators and SD Snatcher translation came!

Indeed, some games have child histories and plots. Shalom is one example. The portuguese translation showed me how trash and childish was his history

But I am a pirate and I am all wrong about this. Gurve5800 is right enjoying japanese games on his japanese revival buying crap priced as gold

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>>MSX revival for me is new software or new hardware. It is not homemade demos, games made with sprite rips and the resseling of old games for playing in bad emulators, old games that I already have the originals from 10-20 years ago.<< There IS going to be new hardware very soon (MSX-GR), and there WILL be new games (Guru Logic). It is just that they take time to make, so don't expect them instantly on your door mat

Guru Logic is a NEW game? get a life, please

1) this is a REMAKE
2) msx ALREADY had a remaked version of this game. don't be loosy

do you really have to quote that much, just to add 'No.' ?

Ever heard of netiquete ?

EDIT: ok, so that post was wiped .. *sigh*

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Guru Logic is a NEW game? get a life, please 1) this is a REMAKE 2) msx ALREADY had a remaked version of this game. don't be loosy

You call that a proper remake? get a life, please

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Yes, but you are trying to twis my words. I will explain like you have 5 years old:

In that case, let me also explain as if you were a five year old, because if you like such an approach, you must like to receive it. You said:

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MSX revival for me is new software or new hardware. It is not homemade demos, games made with sprite rips and the resseling of old games for playing in bad emulators, old games that I already have the originals from 10-20 years ago.

There are three facts which show this remark of you is not true. A fact means that it is for sure, you understand?
1- The new MSX-GR hardware is being made, as a result of the revival.
2- The game Guru Logic is being developed for Aiky's (former Compile).
3- Two MSX Magazines have been published so far, with as it looks now more to come. These are the first professional MSX computer magazines being made again since the last issue of the Spanish Hnostar magazine, which dates back to .

So, there is new software and hardware. And paperware. Problem is, it *does* take some time to finish those first two products. However, it is for sure that they will come. The first because over 3000 people already paid for it, the second because I am in the development team.

Also, I know some more details about certain things which I must keep secret, however you will have to believe me on my word that this isn't the end of it.

Anyways, seeing those three facts, and also including the few things I know about which are still to come, I have every reason to be optimistic about the MSX revival. Just remember that new things don't pop out of the ground in a minute, they take time to develop. Also, the efforts of Japanese companies still being mainly Japan-oriented can be explained by the simple fact that they have to invest money in them and that a worldwide release would complicate things and require bigger investments.

Anyways, so those are the reasons for my optimism. Ofcourse, you have every right to be pessimistic (though I may try to change your mind ;p), but if you are trying to explain why, please do stay with the facts. It is a lot less frustrating having to reply to arguments based on the correct facts.

By the way, let's not not forget that Sunrise is still actively developing hardware, and that new games are still being made by the amateur scene aswell, the most recent example being Bombaman.


~Grauw

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Guru Logic is a NEW game? get a life, please 1) this is a REMAKE 2) msx ALREADY had a remaked version of this game. don't be loosy

Remakes are still new games. Besides, Guru Logic was never released outside of Japan, so technically spoken for you, as a non-Japanese resident, it IS a new game. And our Guru Logic will get a license from Aiky, the owner of the game. So legally, we are the only ones allowed to make the game for MSX, and our game will be the only version with legal status. If others choose to ignore that, we objected against it, but alas, to no effect. We actually felt very frustrated about that respectless act. Nonetheless, I don't see why our game as a token of the MSX revival would be any less one because of that.

Anyways, the existing versions are inferior to the game we are making anyway.


~Grauw

p.s. moderators, I do not think racism should be allowed on this public forum.

And a crowded day on the forums it is. After a hard day of working, I'd like to add some 2 cents as well...

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great, we had a few delegations here. i've seen nishi & co at tilburg those few years ago and it was interesing indeed. they did show interest in us, but as long as there even isnt a normal internation site, then it keeps with SHOWING attention. simple meaningless words.. they should show some deeds!

Travelling multiple times from Japan to the Netherlands, Spain and/or America costs quite some bucks. There are cheaper ways of showing attention, don't you think? I think it's safe to say there are more reasons than just 'showing attention' why MSX Association is willing to invest money in these short travels.

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logic indeed suggests the revival starts in japan. but logic doesn't suggest they keep it in japan, but they DO keep it in japan!

They have kept it in Japan so far. Dat doesn't mean they will keep it in Japan forever, does it?

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or I can then download any Emu on PC and the rom and play it there and they are FAR better than any MSXPlayer crap from Japan !!!

I assume you did not buy MSX Magazine 1 nor 2 and thus have not even tried MSXPLAYer. I had bad feelings about it at first as well (especially after the extremely crappy Castle Excellent beta version), but the MSXPLAYer that came with MSX Magazine 1 came already quite close to the quality of emulation of NLMSX and openMSX. The current MSXPLAYer version adds turboR support and improved emulation and is capable of running a very high percentage of MSX software without any problems. The Guru Logic game engine is very timing-critical and gives problems on most emulators (it even did on openMSX until recently), but it worked smooth on MSXPLAYer all along. Of course the emulator lacks the configurability of -say- openMSX or NLMSX, but that doesn't make it a crap emulator, does it. BlueMSX and RedMSX have recently proven a lot of people prefer a 'click and run' emulator. (Hmmm I should really do a new Emu Comp soon)

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In my country there is no such thing. Here, the users are active a longer time than just 2 years, as well as homemade soft and hardware. It is not growing or decreasing, it is just the same thing.

I think the Brazilian MSX users should come out of their holes very soon. Look what happened on the MSX Resource Center in the past 2 years. I think it's safe to say that the MSX Resource Center has contributed to a boost of activity of MSX users in Europe and (to lesser extent) in Japan. However, there are only a few Brazilian MSX users that have found their way to the MRC. Sometimes it looks as if the Brazilian MSX users prefer it to be 'cut off' from the international MSX Community. Needless to say there are some very positive exceptions. To increase the bindings with the Brazilian MSX Community we would like to offer the contents of our website in Portuguese (and Japanese) as well, as we have announced many times before, but we'd need a few translators to get that job done.

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Guru Logic is a NEW game? get a life, please 1) this is a REMAKE 2) msx ALREADY had a remaked version of this game. don't be loosy

I didn't know you knew all the details about the upcoming Guru Logic. The TeddyWareZ remake had little to do with the GBA Guru Logic, while the (impressive) MSX1 version by Robsy stays closer to the TwZ version than the Aiky version. Apart from that, both games were not licensed by Aiky. The version currently under development is not a remake, but a port of the game. As you have not seen a single bit of the upcoming version yet, I think it's not the time to judge about the quality of the upcoming, official Guru Logic for MSX, or its right to exist.

$0.02 is quite a lot of talk these days

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>>logic indeed suggests the revival starts in japan. but logic doesn't suggest they keep it in japan, but they DO keep it in japan! << They have kept it in Japan so far. Dat doesn't mean they will keep it in Japan forever, does it?

great! at least we agree about them keeping it still there. but ENOUGH! time has passed..

btw: i just has to laugh a bit when i say "Dat" instead of "That"