Hey DarQ, it's perfectly legal to dump roms from your own computer. It is, however, totally illegal to "share" them with users who don't own original hardware.

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Hey DarQ, it's perfectly legal to dump roms from your own computer. It is, however, totally illegal to "share" them with users who don't own original hardware.

true, but everytime i say that, i actually mean that he distributed them in the first place. if ATARULUM dumps roms, and after a while they appear anywhere on the internet, then he really did something illegal (not that i care about it ).

A question comes suddenly to my mind:

Sunrise has an agreement with ASCII/Microsoft? If not, why do they include DOS2 ROM in every IDE interface?

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If uploaded Roms are Not identical, I have no reason to say that. But a few of Roms are identical from mine. For example, if anyone dump DISK BASIC ROM, the checksum must be variable because of Memory I/O address of FDC. But the CRC32 of DISK BASIC and contents are just identical from mine.

Dude, what's with the sand in your Vagina ? (note for later: watching too much southpark
Quit bitching, Anyone can dump Diskrom, Basic rom from a MSX, or any Rom and if those are dump from similar machines, dump images will be the same. That's what ROM are for you know... I'm pretty sure I can use the diskrom of my 8250 and use it on another 8250... same same.

Anyway, what was your point ?

I do not understand the problem: there are not many ROM variations out there, because different MSX machines belong to the same standard and use the same BIOS. I know that there are different minor changes about hardware configurations and there are some disk BIOS around.

But, as Maggoo pointed, anyone with the same computer could dump EXACTLY the same ROMs. If they are not the same ROMs, this could be due two different problems:

1-You don't dump the ROMs correctly.
2-Even worse: you dump the ROMs and then add to them some trash, like "HEy; I DiD ThIs" somewhere.

If you can help emulator developers, do it. Or aren't you using the product of their efforts when playing those emus?

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A question comes suddenly to my mind: Sunrise has an agreement with ASCII/Microsoft? If not, why do they include DOS2 ROM in every IDE interface?

AFAIK DOS2 was added just for convinience-purposes. I already told Sunrise it wasn't legal to do it this way and proposed a patching system to add the IDE driver part to the DOS2 people dump themselves (or flash just the driver to the ROM). They didn't care about that at that time. I wonder if they do now.

Well, When i dump the DISK BASIC 1.0 from my DPC200 + DPF550, is true, the CHECKSUM depend on the FDC STATUS, and the unit format that support, but as if you dump it from an another identical machine you can get the same result. why?

Because the FDC when is not used, normally return the last TRACK used, and the last SECTOR used, and the status byte, normally say, there is an diskette inserted, no INDEX hole detected, no write protect detected, ready for get a command, (the most common status when simply is not used).

So, the last TRACK and SECTOR number, normally in my format is the TRACK 0 , SECTOR 5 (DIRECTORIO), o TRACK 0, SECTOR 1 (FAT).

And the same situation is on any identical machine that are not using the diskdriver.

So, almost that you write a sign in the FREE BYTES of the ROM. You not has any fact that tellyou that that ROM is from you DUMP.

<Character#1> it's just some egotrip, don't care about it
<Character#2> the ROMs are out in the open, anyone can download them...
<Character#1> of course, just get a complete tosec msx set and there will be some of his dumps
<Character#1> basicaly anyone can get his hands over them
<Character#1> he just mixed the " openmsx " dir on funet and the " openmsx project "
<Character#1> one should tell him that it's not mandatory that a dir labelled " openmsx " belongs to the msx emulator team
<Character#2> no dir on funet belongs to anyone
<Character#3> maybe one should do the same as atarulum next time when he asks for goodmsx roms dumps
<Character#1> he dumped roms for goodmsx
<Character#3> would be quite a fair trade
<Character#3> so did I
<Character#1> so he knows everyone will be able to have them
<Character#1> that's called an egotrip
<Character#2> OK, just post all this shit to the thread

and btw atarulum, any rom whatever they are are gathered by collecting and preservation teams (like tosec, cowering etc...) and spread over the whole internet.
you CANNOT tell who gave them to who, as soon as you dump something it's merged into existing databases from teams that HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH OPENMSX.
Then, if someone choose to make them available for public on a site or a ftp it's not OpenMSX team fault.
Try to get how things work please.

ah well, if someone manages to remove all roms from funet, they'll be back in notime, on funet or somewhere else

btw: J-War is quite right in his last post

It's strange cause i always though dumping roms was something one could greatly enjoy since he helps one computer / console community, emulators coders and emulators users.

Beside helping devello/emus and stuffs, i always tough dumping was a way to make a contribution to the memory of a "dead" system you used to enjoy.

Usualy you dump to SHARE, not for fame...

Legal notice :
- it's forbidden to give one of your dumps to anyone until you're sure he owns the real thing. (how could you be sure, if so ?)

<personal>
kinda curious.. if that dir is about to be deleted?
Would that mean that I have to 'update' the personal mirror I made from funet.
</personal>

Okay, I can imagine the guy's perspective.
Imagine you dumped 300 rom files and someone else is braggin' with it..

<personal>
On the otherhand.... why would you hang the dumped rom around on the internet if you don't want ppl to use it? Foei to the ppl that are distributing packages without telling all ppl that are responsible for the content..
Yes I'm still angry for the fact that others distributed /sold our BASIC version of Hangman, without telling us. Shame on you all!
</personal>

Atalarum: you are incredibly anal about this. I don't see WHY you are so uptight about those roms, it's not like, it is a huge accomplishment you made there or something. You just dumped roms. Big deal, I can do that too. Ok, no, that's not entirely true. Dumping ROMs is ofcourse a good effort (from an archival point of view), and it is not always trivial, but you apparantly attach a huge amount of ego to it. You have no single right to claim ownage for those ROMs, because they are *not* yours. Anyways, if you wanted credit, this bashing openMSX is definately the wrong way to get it.

And flyguille has a point about there being a fair chance the data is the same. It is not at all purely random information, after all.

Really, how are the openMSX people supposed to know where exactly their ROMs came from, and if so how does this justify this huuuuuuge anger you suddenly seem to be feeling towards them? I have many ROMs, and I don't have a single clue about who dumped them for any of them (well, for some I do, I guess). I certainly don't feel any urge to even think about tracing the original author to ask for their permission to use them! (although I am ofcourse only talking about legal ROMs here ;p). What a nonsense. And if anything, you should rather be angry at the MESS people, if you think they 'leaked'. Anyways, pft, this whole thing is rediculous.


~Grauw

p.s. about the Sunrise vs. DOS2... I believe MSX Association made a statement now about distributing DOS with software (and, I guess, hardware) being ok?

ATARULUM, I would like to thank you for everything you've done for openMSX. All your input has been greatly appreciated and you are still welcome to aide us with more info.

I know you are upset about something and you blame the openMSX development team... but please stop that.. this post has costed you a few credit on my credibility scale. Just be happy with blueMSX and MESS and please stop bitching about your rom dumps!!

If you trully think that all dumps are yours give me the CRC of those roms and I promise I will delete them from my harddrive. I will be doing this with great joy since I know that you HATE openMSX and keep on making this clear.

I think you are a childish weiner who really has some issues...

Have a nice life.



ATARULUM is insulting Reikan who has done a great job with the c-bios. The one and only true bios that comes with openMSX.

ps. this is my personal opinion and not the opinion of the openMSX team as a whole.

Please understand that the directory named "system_roms/openMSX" on funet is not maintained by the openMSX team.

As a team we decided to ship openMSX only with system ROMs we have permission for (C-BIOS). This was done in the interest of the project: to be able to put release downloads on SourceForge.net, to make sure openMSX can be included in Linux distributions etc. It is not a legal or moral statement; it is just pragmatism.

ATARULUM: I get the feeling you are displeased with our speed of handling the bug reports and feature requests you have filed for openMSX. Please understand there is a limit to the amount of time I can spend coding and it's far less than I would like. I choose my priorities based on both what I think is important for openMSX and what I find interesting to work on. Note that we did implement the firmware mapper and front switch of the A1FM, a machine which may not exist outside Japan.