Í find these discussion heard cauz I don't know the facts. But ok, here goes my fision on this topic:

If MSX2 whould have been released in 1983. I think the PC would get a kick in their but cauz
PC's at that time were like monochrome AT's or XT's.
I think C64 would have a real tough nutt to crack cauz the C64 cannot be compared with the
abilities of the MSX2 (imho). I can't really say what whould become of the atari systems, cauz they
had a nice soundengine (ps: please don't start flaming me about this, cauz I well know that the
moonsound is the best soundchip ever)

Another shift that could take place is that game companies whould be more interested in coding
for MSX2 then all the other systems, because it is easy to code, and with good results!
So I think the games industry could change also.

If it was worldwide spread, MSX2 could have it's influences in robotica and other automation projects
like database wharehouses.

In short: If MSX2 was the first MSX system, we could have facing a whole different world

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As for whoever said MSX2 was superior to Amiga A500, I love the MSX systems, I can't help it, first computer etc. But there is no way on this earth that the MSX2 was superior to the A500. I can't think of ONE single MSX2 game that even came close to the kind of graphics the Amiga could achieve.

There's more to MSX than just games, remember that... That's the whole problem with the current entertainment industry. It's all about graphics... Yuck...

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If MSX2 whould have been released in 1983. I think the PC would get a kick in their but cauz PC's at that time were like monochrome AT's or XT's.

That was true for PC's in 1985/86 too. And they definitely couldn't do digitizing!

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In short: If MSX2 was the first MSX system, we could have facing a whole different world

We could've been facing a whole different world if MSX had been marketed in the USA...

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I think C64 would have a real tough nutt to crack cauz the C64 cannot be compared with the abilities of the MSX2 (imho).

While I'm not the c64-type at all, the thing *is* faster with gfx.. Some C64-demos I saw, while the colors were ugly and while their CPU runs 0.8mhz, have some visual effects that are impossible on an MSX1/2/2+/tR.
While the SID is better than the PSG, The FM-Pac was so common that you can almost say that this was the 'standard' soundchip.. and in that case I rate the FM-Pac way higher than the SID

The thing is faster with Gfx... Are you forgetting screen 4 (or the MSX1 screen modes)???

Have you ever seen a c64 demo..? recent ones..?

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Have you ever seen a c64 demo..? recent ones..?

Hehe, if you want to see what can be done on a comp running at less than one Mhz, try out some Atari XL demos made by the Polish scene, try out atariarea.histeria.pl/PLus/downloads_us.htm for the emulator and some demo (Drunken Chessboard, Numen, Ultra (you might have to set the emulator memory to 320 Rambo mode for that one). It is really impressive for a comp that came out in 1979, and far better than any demo I've seen on the MSX. Fast animation, cool sound, lots of colors, even neat 3D.
Ah, if only VDP memory was accessible directly and not thru stupid OUT....

Doesn't mean MSX isn't good but some design flaws are hard to forgive concidering when it came out.

MSXdemomakers, please react ! I'd really want to see more demos for 2+/Turbo R...

You can expect some new demos for the MRC Bounce Challenge
Mine will be MSX2 / 64K RAM, but it will hopefully be impressive

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There's more to MSX than just games, remember that... That's the whole problem with the current entertainment industry. It's all about graphics... Yuck...

If not for graphics, the MSX2 wasn't capable of much more than the original MSX. I agree that graphics isn't everything, and graphics, epsecially in todays environment, do not make a good game.
However, I think the MSX1's graphics abilities hindered the machine to such an extent, it was very difficult to produce a really good game. Although I can't help wondering why more vertical scrollers weren't made, it did seem to have a lot less hassle scrolling vertically than horizontally. If the Xenon port hadn't been so lazy, I think it could have looked a lot better. If the ship and the enemies had been done using coloured sprites, I'm sure even with the drab backgrounds that the game would have looked a zillion times better. As good as the Nemesis series was, that inability to side scroll makes it very frustrating if you're moving up or down to take out an enemy on the scenery, and you've cut it too fine, and the next 16 pixels scroll and take you out The game took extra skill, just to make up for the bad scrolling.

Besides, by the time MSX2 came out, Amiga was digitizing sounds and graphics, and with the Genlock, capable of doing anything the MSX could with video

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If MSX2 whould have been released in 1983. I think the PC would get a kick in their but cauz PC's at that time were like monochrome AT's or XT's.

Well, so what? The Macintosh didn't sink the PC, and it was light years ahead. The Amiga failed to make a dent, save gaming and video niches, none of which was of importance to the PC market.
The PC sold because of two things:
A) It was from IBM. Extreme brand value in those days.
B) It was sixteen bits, when all its competitors were eight bits (including MSX).

Far greater machines have failed in the face of the IBM PC. You can have all the colour graphics and multi-channel sound you like, the PC users couldn't care less. They wanted the IBM name (or at least be IBM compatible), they wanted compatibility with other business users, they wanted Lotus 1-2-3. They never wanted colour graphics, didn't need it. They put up with all the limits and idiosynchracies of the PC because they wanted an IBM PC, and nothing else.

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MSXdemomakers, please react ! I'd really want to see more demos for 2+/Turbo R...

MSX demomakers moven on long time ago... L!T and Bandwagon quit MSX due to loosers bitching arbout uselessnes of demos and importance of games

That is not true, dhau. Apart from the fact that there are still demomakers out there, L!T and Bandwagon stopped because they felt they did not get enough positive response to their demo's. However, they did little to get or keep in touch which those people who could give that positive response. I've never seen them around on the International MSX mailinglist, and perhaps only occasionally on comp.sys.msx. One of the coders was hanging around on the MRC forums for a while though, but that was long after they had quit MSX.

Let there be a lesson: if you see something on MSX (new) you like, let the people who developed it know you liked it

And who are the mistireous modern day MSX demo scene heroes? Probably is the same Far-Far-Away-Fairy-Land as MSX2 Guru Logic and MSX-on-a-Chip?

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And who are the mistireous modern day MSX demo scene heroes? Probably is the same Far-Far-Away-Fairy-Land as MSX2 Guru Logic and MSX-on-a-Chip?

Hmmzz. I might as well stop coding then

Yeah. It was really a shame the MRC demo challenges were such a failure. No-one sent in any submissions!