In this thread a discussion started on developing an allround birdview RPG engine for MSX. It is no secret that 'amateurs' can make great RPGs on MSX. We already have seen smooth-scrolling RPGs are possible on turboR with Moonlight Saga (which is an absolutely stunning game), but this RPG demo shows some impressive results on MSX2 as well. And lets not forget about all the Umax RPGs we have seen so far.

As for platform games, a new version of the stunning RPG engine Vscreen has just been released (see this newspost), perhaps something similar could be done for RPG's on MSX as well.

So, lets have a look at it... what should a good RPG engine be capable of? What features are an absolute must? How can stories be scripted, games be saved, graphics be compressed etc. etc. etc. How close does Dante 2 get us to what we want? (check those screenshots!). But, most importantly, who would be able to develop this allround RPG engine? k0ga, are you still around? Peter Meulendijks, are you reading this?

Whatever it'll be .. any artist should be able to create/compile the game without the need of a real coder, and without 'coding' (something that looks like coding ) except for very simple scripts perhaps.

There should be support for 2 battle-modes:
1 slaughtering as you walk (like Xak etc.)
2 slaughtering in a seperate battle-screen (SD-sn., DS6 etc.)

I wonder if this post was inspired by the discussion on #msxdev @ Rizon tonight?

On-topic though, first you need to establish the kind of RPG you're going to make.

CRPG (computer RPG) = Dragonslayer 6, SD-Snatcher, etc
ARPG (active/action RPG) = Hydlide 3, Zelda, etc
SRPG (strategy RPG) = Shining Force, etc (sorry no MSX example, this is not my fav genre)

wolf_, I kinda think you're asking the impossible. There sure is a lot possible, but you always need to do ~some~ code. Ask ro tho: F-Kernel should be great (I'd be mighty happy to get a copy of that tho, just to improve my ASM-skills Which aren't actual skills as of yet... Only rushcoded a network driver once :|)

Can't that be done using simple scripting? My point is that you need to be indepentant if you wish to be. It wouldn't be the first time that some game never hits the street because the coder left the project.

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Can't that be done using simple scripting? My point is that you need to be indepentant if you wish to be. It wouldn't be the first time that some game never hits the street because the coder left the project.

I'll make it if you want, but only if you promise to find a team (including yourself) that will make at least one *good* RPG. You're right, it actually is quite easy, but it is a lot of work...

hehe .. well, I can't promise to find a whole team .. and besides.. if it's an engine w/o the need to code, then you only need artists .. you can even ask gfx'ers from a completely different computersystem to draw then.. you don't depend on the current msx-scene. Music has to be msx-only for obvious reasons.. however.. that's no problem ofcourse

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I wonder if this post was inspired by the discussion on #msxdev @ Rizon tonight?

Dunno, have to read the log files I quess

Uhm, who ever said "no biggy" has to get his/her brains examined!
Ppl always tend to 'forget' the details which take up some darn much time to code; the overhead, the flexibility, the side-apps, the tweakings, the debugging, the speed(!), did I mention flexibility?
And I could prolly come up with some more. And NO guyver, please don't tell me to shut up and stop screaming like a little baby I am why I always make things look harder than they seem

WHY do you think, in the amateur scene, there are so tiny less RPG or rather ANY good games released? Well, it's not that the 'scene' didn't try. It's just that they didn't succeed. Sure this is partly cuz of the lack of a project manager (mainly that'l be the coders who, as Wolf gently remarked, always were the first to quit the project.. and WHY do you think that is eh? Making music, graphic etc has INSTANT effect. Dun quite easily. Coding and pasting all together however...)

But this should not be an disencouragement but a moment to re-think. IF any project ever gets started there HAS to be a *good* coder with some spare time and the strength to actually... well you know.

Take the Nosferatu project for example. Frankly the game had many potential, good GFX, good Muzax and even some good code allready (even level editors were done) But then the idea of a kernel kicked in.. well this is another story, but it got us (the coders) in a new inspirational side quest. We never had the time to finish the whole game idea... too bad, really too bad.

For a (flexible) RPG engine you need lotsa good code. Not only some "scrolling" or "screen/flip" routines.. but also how and when to flip/load/change screen, events and yadayadayada.. lotsa work.

so don't gimme that crap. ghehe. I'm not the one coding my ass of for such. I can, however, do SOMETHING.. or atleast release some kernel stuff for ya''ll to check (it really IS perfect for RPG gaming, it was written with that in mind actually..gheh)

nuff said... it's too early anyway... yaaaaawn.

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Quote: I wonder if this post was inspired by the discussion on #msxdev @ Rizon tonight? Dunno, have to read the log files I quess

FUN{N[*(1 - x)]}Y! Don't know if there's some standard syntax for repetition like that, though... btw. also Funny is how you think you know people when you've never met them. I can hardly say people act the same in real life as they do online.

Anyway, you might like to try becoming a regular in Rizon #msxdev. You are always welcome to join in any of the discussions going on there.

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Can't that be done using simple scripting? My point is that you need to be indepentant if you wish to be. It wouldn't be the first time that some game never hits the street because the coder left the project.

haha, and not the first time that the GFX dudes leave the project before it's finished for instance

In my opinion a game made with 'game makers' like Dante 2 should not be recognized easily as being a typical 'game maker X'-game. An RPG-editor should be really flexible in all kind of areas.

Wolf_: Even if I see your point, I beleive at some point you'll always end up frustrated with a generic engine. There will always be "something" missing that you might want and that is not in the generic engine, and for that little something you'll always need a coder. That doesn't mean the generic engine is useless.

Too many times you see different team working on different projects re-doing the same routines (loading routines, animation routines, text display routines, editor, etc...). I see the use of that generic engine into providing that minimal set of functions that you don't have to redo all over again unless you got a lot of time to waste. After that when you define your game, you have at least some specs to keep in mind and an idea of the overhead your "special features" will require.

Adding something to a generic engine will only result in an even more complete generic engine.

Maggoo: a generic game-engine made for artists always means that at some point you'll 'miss' some code. However, if the engine can be at least comparible with SD-Snatcher, DS6, Xak etc. etc. then I think we've some nice engine already, considering the fact that these games were ranked quite high in the several polls MRC did in the past. Actually, if one makes an RPG engine for artists, and the engine is comparible with those games I mentioned, I think ppl are celebrating a party actually!
For myself, I would focus more on atmosphere anyway.