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Development - RPG engine for MSX

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RPG engine for MSX

Maggoo
msx professional
Berichten: 590
Geplaatst: 20 Augustus 2004, 17:12   
Quote:

Quote:

The Zelda on the NES and Gameboy are the RPG that sold the most worldwide, and they didn't have a scrolling


Zelda 1 on NES idd didn't, but the Gameboy Zelda's and NES' Zelda II all had scrolling. ^^;
But you are right, scrolling is often overrated...
Besides, I don't mind 8 pixel scrolling...



Gameboy Zelda (and even GBC Zelda) didn't have scrolling (well it did in some rooms but that was minor).
wolf_

msx legend
Berichten: 4777
Geplaatst: 20 Augustus 2004, 17:21   
Hey, we all liked MG1&2, rite? And for the ppl that haven't played Randar 3 yet.. try it, it's a really great RPG imho. PagePerPage and scrolling RPG's can both be great.. it's all a matter of map-design.

compare: in MG1/2 all 'rooms' and locations look nice. In SD-Snatcher you can walk to some really dull locations (gfx-wise).

PagePerPage is underrated
MrRudi
msx addict
Berichten: 467
Geplaatst: 20 Augustus 2004, 18:09   
Quote:

Quote:


Accepting shortcoming because it is less work might be efficient, but surpassing the existing stuff is the real challenge. I don't see a problem there, as long as there is a good coder that picks it up. Of course an RPG is mainly compelling because of the storyline and characters, that doesn't mean it is stupid to consider technical improvements. Research, resolve, evolve.


Sure, that is really cool, but it is also a hell of a lot of work. It might be years before something is finished, if ever.
How many amateur groups tried to make an RPG when MSX was still fully alive? How many succeeded? Why would it be different now?



I don't know, how many groups did try? Only very few I think since it was apparent to most people how difficult it would be.

And why is it different now? Like Guyver said: better tools, but also better development environments, and for some: more experience, more knowledge etc.

Quote:

And in Thom's defense, you did see the enemies walk around in PA3, only when you collided with them did the screen switch to battle mode. That's what he meant, and he is right.



Ah ok, I didn't know that

I was thinking about doing some preliminary village graphics - as a response to your foundation question - and I started out with a list of things I wanted in there, a rough map layout and a tile division count. Satisfied?

The thing I agree with though is that we are discussing graphics (well some of us) and stuff without having any idea what kind of RPG we want to make and what it is about

and @ Wolf_: PagePerPage is just even more unnatural then scrolling. Not being able to see something that is 1 mm away from you just annoys me. Yes I liked MG1&2, I would have liked it more if it would have scrolled - I reckon. Can't be sure now can I?
Rikusu

msx professional
Berichten: 955
Geplaatst: 20 Augustus 2004, 18:56   
Quote:

The thing I agree with though is that we are discussing graphics (well some of us) and stuff without having any idea what kind of RPG we want to make and what it is about



Well, ofcourse the Curse of Kaijruu scenario is still available .
wolf_

msx legend
Berichten: 4777
Geplaatst: 20 Augustus 2004, 18:57   
can you give a brief summary about the story, for those who are interested?
wolf_

msx legend
Berichten: 4777
Geplaatst: 20 Augustus 2004, 19:02   
Quote:

and @ Wolf_: PagePerPage is just even more unnatural then scrolling. Not being able to see something that is 1 mm away from you just annoys me. Yes I liked MG1&2, I would have liked it more if it would have scrolled - I reckon. Can't be sure now can I?



Well, I think you're the first known-scene-person to complain about this I don't see a problem really.. if you're standing at the border of a screen, and you fear that something 3 pixels away (on the next screen) will screw your ass once you cross the screen, then the gameplay needs to be improved I expect enemies to keep some distance from borders.
Anyway.. I guess that when Sonic's 'rooms' are each simply one-screen in size that you then have the same PagePerPage effect. So, I guess all parties can be happy then!

Uh.. rite, t00b ?
Sonic_aka_T

msx guru
Berichten: 2269
Geplaatst: 20 Augustus 2004, 19:24   
Eerr, wolf... If you like page-per-page RPGs, why the hell do have me working on a scrolling RPG? Page-per-page is a whole lot easier... :|
wolf_

msx legend
Berichten: 4777
Geplaatst: 20 Augustus 2004, 19:45   
hey.. it's supposed to be generic

btw.. I like scrolling more, so don't worry.. but I'm only trying to find out if you could do a PPP game as well using multiple screensize-maps..
Rikusu

msx professional
Berichten: 955
Geplaatst: 20 Augustus 2004, 20:18   
Quote:

can you give a brief summary about the story, for those who are interested?



I quote the description I gave at my website:

About The Curse of Kaijruu

What I had always wanted to make, was a role-playing game (RPG). I myself was particularly fond of this game type so it was like a dream to me to be involved in the development of one myself. When we decided to give the development of a RPG a try, I started writing the game script and thinking about the game design. This was the beginning of the development of The Curse of Kaijruu (TCOK).

Originally, The Curse of Kaijruu was meant to become a mixture of a RPG with a puzzle game. The game would mainly become a RPG incorporating a story line, monsters to fight, villages, caverns, etcetera, but was also to incorporate many puzzles in Eggerland style. This idea was given up real soon, however.

Shortly before we started thinking about TCOK, Umax had released its fantastic RPG Pumpkin Adventure III, a really high-standard RPG. Of course, we wanted to compete with this game. TCOK would have to become even better.

The plans were eventually as follows. TCOK would become a action RPG, so the enemies had to be fought in the playing field, not in menu-based battle sequences. This part would have been comparable to Xak 2 or Fray. The use of items and magic spells, however, would broadly be incorporated to extend the battles as much as possible. Boss characters would become really spectacular as well.

The game screen was to scroll (incorporating multi-layer scrolling), so no flip-over would be used. In this respect, the game would become comparable with Xak 2 as well, but we wanted a scrolling routine at least as fast as Ys 2's. The game would support MoonSound (OPL4) as well as FM-Pac and/or Music Module for the background music.

The game would be divided in at least ten chapters and between every chapter there would be a short demo. Of course, there would also be extended intro and ending demo's.

As you can read, many plans were made, but eventually nothing was accomplished. There were several factors causing this. Firstly, Jan and Aaldert had little experience programming games and the programming of a game like this would really become complicated. I have never seen anything developed farther than a screen, divided into blocks, differentiating the game screen, status screens and the like. It didn't even scroll yet. Secondly, graphics for the game were hardly designed. Sven had drawn some of the main characters and monsters onto paper, but these were never worked out on the computer. I will put scans of these at the end of the text as soon as they are available.

John, Robert and I, however, were zealously busy doing our tasks. Many, many music compositions were created by John and Robert, both for FM-Pac/Music Module and MoonSound. The songs really were of a splendid quality. The script was entirely written as well, all the ten chapters being described into detail about what had to happen, how things had to look, etcetera. Texts containing character descriptions as well as item and magic descriptions were written.

What was the story about then? Well, I'll try to give a short summary. The genre, by the way, was fantasy.

The intro demo of the game started with a young man running ahead of a herd of wolves. After reaching a cabin in the woods, he can do nothing else than fight them. After having wounded one of them badly, the wolves slink away and the young man enters the cabin. Here's an old man, who turns out to have been a teacher of the young man in early days. The young man, by the way, is the main character of the game and is called Derion.

In the cabin, Derion has a long conversation with the old man. The player of the game is introduced to the backgrounds of the story. There's a country called Corvicia. A very long time ago, this country was harassed by severe wars between its gods and demons. However, at a certain point in history, the gods and demons entered into an alliance after which Corvicia got to know an era of prosperity. Never had there occurred a similar thing, never had gods and demons been able to cooperate. A government was formed by descendants of gods as well as demons.

Shortly before the game starts, however, the alliance was broken by the Upper Evil. The gods of Corvicia were exiled and the demons were brought to power. This resulted into a chaos and many neighboring countries that had always envied Corvicia's prosperity invaded. A terrible war was the result, and Corvicia was left behind in ultimate chaos.

Derion, being the descendant of the upper god of Corvicia, was the only one to escape from the clutches of the Upper Evil and he fled. His magical power had been taken off, however, so he came to his old master and friend to seek help.

In the first chapter of the game, the wolves, actually being demonic creatures, have to be extinguished completely, after which Derion goes back to Corvicia in order to try and do something about the terror it faces, being reigned by the upper demon. Then, a journey to the capital starts, during which many things happen. He meets Emily, a practitioner of white magic, and he falls in love with her. He meets Salten, the descendant of Corvicia's upper demon, claiming to be on Derion's side. Armies to invade the capital of Corvicia, Kaijruu, are set up only to find the city deserted. Ancient prophecies are discovered and cause hope as well as despair. Legendary magicians turn out to exist but appear to have an agenda of their own. And eventually, something far more serious than the reign of the demons over Corvicia appears to be going on...

The Curse of Kaijruu is an epic story about love, betrayal, hope, fate, despair, conspiracy and bravery. Things never are what they seem to be or to have been.

-----

If anyone's interested in more details, let me know. The scenario is written out in as muclh details as possible already

Oh and ofcourse I won't mind if the engine differs from the one described above at all. Sonic's engine probably will do great as well
IC
msx professional
Berichten: 538
Geplaatst: 20 Augustus 2004, 20:41   
if this is yer reaction on 'brief summary'... I wonder how long the complete scenario is
Grauw
msx professional
Berichten: 1006
Geplaatst: 20 Augustus 2004, 21:01   
^___^
Umax
msx novice
Berichten: 25
Geplaatst: 20 Augustus 2004, 21:02   
Quote:

I haven't worked on NPCs yet, but my basic idea is to divide them in 'enemies' and 'NPCs'. A collission with an enenmy just fires up the combat module and passes along the enemy ID. The combat module should handle the rest from there on, only returning on victory and passing on the stat gains in a table. NPCs just trigger script mode, passing their respective ID. The 'user' (rpg maker) will then have to figure out how this event fits in his story line and act accordingly.



That's also how the pa3 engine works. Only we did not use a scripting language, we just used ASM. And why not? why develop a hard-to-code scripting language that the rpg creater needs to learn anyway, instead of just have the creater learn to code simple ASM. This way, you leave the option open for very complicated stuff too.

In addition to NPC's and Enemies, the PA3 editor has some extra entities.
One such is an entity that causes a collision when hit, only this entity is not visible in the screen and does not move. This way, you can have something happen when the player walks over a certain location (the herbs in Lost World for example)
another entity is an NPC which "rotates" an the same spot. To move NPCs, PA3 uses 2 steps in each direction, totaling 8 steps. These entities would rotate all 8 steps. This way, simple animations of 8 steps could be created. (the candles in Lost World, for example)

Sonic_aka_T

msx guru
Berichten: 2269
Geplaatst: 21 Augustus 2004, 00:22   
Quote:

Oh and ofcourse I won't mind if the engine differs from the one described above at all. Sonic's engine probably will do great as well

Will do?!?! Guess who's RPG we're not making?
Rikusu

msx professional
Berichten: 955
Geplaatst: 21 Augustus 2004, 08:57   
Quote:

Will do?!?! Guess who's RPG we're not making?





Didn't I add the word 'great' as well?? If you rebuilt a Gazzel-like map that scrolls and through which one can walk also behind obstacles, your engine sounds great!

Better?

But ehrm, ofcourse feedback on the 'brief summary' would be greatly appreciated
snout

msx legend
Berichten: 4991
Geplaatst: 08 September 2004, 15:26   
I'm curious... have people already started working on this (well, I know Sonic did)? Did one or more teams already form? Who would like to use the Umax engine to create a new, cool RPG? WHo would like to build it from scratch?

Do you still need a coder, musician or GFX-artist? Lets keep this one on the road dudes!
 
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