hence the smiley

*duh*

yeeh, WOLF.. you'd know by know we, as MSX freaks, all have ORIGINAL Space Manbow copies... uhu.

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Hmm, and what about Solid Snake and SD-Snatcher... They're noit pure genius?

Hmmm... They're great games, but they're hardly examples of good coding. Solid Snake is okay I guess, and SD-Snatcher is downright crap. It is probably one of the worst coded Konami's out there. Just look at the 'bi-layer' intro scroll, they didn't even take the effort to time the copies or pageflip while scrolling... And when looking a the main game window I'd say that it's not very well optimized either... With all the repeated tiles the average SD-Snatcher map has, that shit should fly.....

... *smiles at Sonic_aka_T*

I don't think complaining about the graphics/smoothness of SD-Snatcher does it right.

MSX games have always been about playability, and SD-Snatcher scores really high in that department.

Eyecandy is just an extra, and IMO a game should never be judged by it. This is what sucks about modern console/PC games. If it doesn't look stunning, it isn't worth shit to reviewers, while the crappiest games with nice visuals get high ratings... It just sucks.

Hence the they're great games remark. BiFi was talking about program-techinal aspect of the games though. And SD-Snatcher just wasn't programmed very well. But sure, SD-Snatcher is one of the best (MSX) games ever... It's one of my all time favorites... Hell, so is SNATCHER, and that seems to be programmed using LOGO for MSX!

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I don't think complaining about the graphics/smoothness of SD-Snatcher does it right. MSX games have always been about playability, and SD-Snatcher scores really high in that department. Eyecandy is just an extra, and IMO a game should never be judged by it. This is what sucks about modern console/PC games. If it doesn't look stunning, it isn't worth shit to reviewers, while the crappiest games with nice visuals get high ratings... It just sucks.

We've been very forgiving regarding the quality of MSX games when there just wasn't anything better but face it, I don't think asking for smooth animation is too "fancy", and yes sometime it adds to the gameplay. I mean you can't call those RPG where you move by 8x8 blocks very user friendly, you can be 16 pixels away from an enemy and at the next frame there's a collision with it... Duh!

It's even worse when it comes to action games. I remember Road Fighter used to give me major headache because of the blocky scrolling and I never really enjoyed F1 Spirit either, again moves were too "blocky". I'm not asking for anything fancy here, but I prefer when things move smoothly rather than by "blocks", and it's not a major technical achievement. Ever tried YS1 on the SMS ? Same storyline, same GFX, same music, as on MSX but smooth moves. MUCH more pleasant to play Now I don't really care about 3D or special FX but good game control should be essential, and MSX can easily handle it.

Well, to me blocky scrolling isn't that bad a thing, but if it can be done smoothly, it should be! However, I'd rather see a couple of new blocky-scrolling MSX games than those games not to be released just because the coder can't get things smooth enough.

I have no problems with blocky either...

Same here, SD-Snatcher is still one of my favorite games, hence the blocky scrolls...

I didn't mean the blocky scrolling (I don't mind it too much in the Nemesis serie), I meant the blocky moves of the main character and enemies. I can tolerate this on SD Snatcher because it's a RPG and rest of the game is great. It wouldn't be ok for another game type tho. Imagine a Shooter or a platform game with that kind of animation, noone would even consider playing it.

so, suppose you could kick sd-snatcher's coder his ass, would you want to see pixel-perfect sprite-placement on the map, or still using the same 8x8 grid, but now walking smoothly to that position?

(with the first option I mean that you can permanently be located on some coord like <37,97>, with the second I mean that the sprite always will be somewhere on the 8x8 grid)

Ys 2 is THE main example on how blocky-scrolls should be... it scrolls so fast it looks like it scrolls by pixel in stead of 8x8

blocky scrolls (tm) .... they're good for you!

Ro: Well that's what happening with Nemesis isn't it ?

As I said, for RPG I guess it's ok but when it comes to game control in general, I'd rather skip the scrolling part (if it's going to look bad anyway it doesn't add anything to the game) and have smooth movements. But hey, it's just a personal opinion.

For RPG I'd do:

1- Smooth Moves - Smooth Scroll (if possible)
2- Smooth Moves - No Scroll
3- Blocky Moves - Blocky Scroll
4- Blocky Moves - Blocky Scroll (for the lazy ones

For other action games:
1- Smooth Moves - Smooth Scroll (if possible)
2- Smooth Moves - No Scroll
3- Don't even bother

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4- Blocky Moves - Blocky Scroll (for the lazy ones

Oops, that should be

4- Blocky Moves - No Scroll (for the lazy ones )