As we are already on the social talk movement today, the American Elections can't go overlooked. Which president did (or would) you vote for? (And what would be the effects of either of these presidents on the MSX community? Is Bush going to smoke us out of our holes?! ^_^)

the point of this election is that it's either Bush or !Bush ..

I don't believe Kerry-voters are really Kerry-voters.. more like anti-Bush-voters. To me, Kerry looks like a muppet.. I just don't really like any of both

Glad we have zjee-pee ^_^

Well, I could imagine anyone doing better than he tho

same prob 4 years ago.. both dickheads...
back then I would've voted Bush, coz I thought he was funny

I mean... these elections are all about who's funny anyway.. they're never about politics in the USA... It's quite sad...

Anyway, with hindsight I probably would've picked Gore, even though he seemed like a total muppet.

Quote:

Glad we have zjee-pee ^_^ Well, I could imagine anyone doing better than he tho

I really disagree.. Just wait a few years and you'll see the fruits of the current policies.
Some decisions made in the first months that ppl thought were crap or useless are already turning out to be positive and great decisions!

Nobody looks at those though... People often are short-sighted and blind, unfortunately...

Quote:

People often are short-sighted and blind, unfortunately...

And are flexible like a block concrete.

You know what the real point is, G? Everyone always says 'hey, let's wait for a couple o'years'. Up till now, no real progress has been made in NL, I feel. Look around you! What has really changed? It's society which has become a whole lot harder on it. 2 political murders in just a few years... I feel we're going the wrong way in NL...

Anyhow, enough bullcrap spilt on this topic; the discussion is about Bush and Kerry now. I for one won't make a choice between them; that is, not here . Hell, we're on a MSX-related site!

.. in social talk, e.g. bullshit, off-topic and nonsense is allowed here

Conjuncture is normal .. after a period of richness, a period of poorness follows. Ppl should get rid of the idea that the rich period (1994-2002) was the 'normal' period.

I think people should get rid of the idea that we're actually being 'poor' now. However, I do think that Balkenende & Co have the tendancy to take the wrong money from the wrong people and look too much at long-term effects, at the cost of short-term effects: the present.

Quote:

You know what the real point is, G? Everyone always says 'hey, let's wait for a couple o'years'. Up till now, no real progress has been made in NL, I feel. Look around you! What has really changed? It's society which has become a whole lot harder on it. 2 political murders in just a few years... I feel we're going the wrong way in NL...

It was the 8 years of 'paars' that had led to the Fortuyn killing. I don't see how you can blame a then future government for a 'climate change' that already happened.

IMO we're going the right way, a LOT has changed in the morroccan communities. While a lot of youths are still rebelious, more and more organisations realise these things don't fix themselves.

And that alone is already a great achievement by the current government!

The changes are subtle, there's no revolution, but a lot of progress has been made, if you pay enough attention.

Saying the government is crap just because the economy is down and the government doesn't want us to end up like Germany and get fines from the EU is just herding behaviour, IMO...

Remember the economy is down partly because of the huge spendings 'paars' did, thanks to the PvdA, who didn't want to follow VVD's advice to use the 'meevallers' at that time to reduce the state debt.
THAT is the legacy the current government has to work with!!

In that respect it's similar to the large spending PvdA government in the late 70's which had to be fixed by CDA-VVD government in the early 80's, which after initial cuts and painful measures led to a large period of prosperity in the 90's.

Most Canadians I know hope Bush will win second term. He is a total disaster for US economy, so it's good for Canada

Is it? Wasn't Bush the one who said after 9/11 "you're with us or against us" ?

If the USA has problems with certain parts of the world, then they'll have to fix that themself, imho he really did a piss-poor job by more or less forcing other countries into HIS war. Personally I couldn't care less which 'media-face' is the new president of the USA.. a genuine chimp or a JimHenson creature.., as long as they keep their bull with them, rather than trying to forge a world-wide alliance against things that are HIS problem.

C'mon man! We have lots of military orders! Plus a lot of new immigrants choose Canada instead of US to settle, since we are a low-profile, totally unambicious country! The only thing that Canada needs to become a superpower is population. Right now at 30 mils the economy can't be self-sustained without US market.

And don't forget, Kerry is a communistic leftie. He's the Unions bitch. He'll close american market and prevent any globalization trends. "America for Americans". This, for sure will totally fuxxor US and destroy it's economy as well, but it'll take too long, but this way Canada won't profit from it.

Quote:

It was the 8 years of 'paars' that had led to the Fortuyn killing

That's quite a bold statement you're making. If you really think that narrow-minded, Balkenende must surely be responsible for the murder on Theo van Gogh.

Quote:

The changes are subtle, there's no revolution, but a lot of progress has been made, if you pay enough attention.

Yup, we're decreasing chances for people who are poor, limiting the amount and equality of chances youngsters have in education, lowering social security and medical care possibilities for those people who can't help they didn't make shitloads of money in the 90s or -even worse- people who have worked their entire life to build our country and fought for those exact same social securities. I think that it's quite a lot to ask, as most of the elderly will not benefit from the long-term effects Balkenende is looking for, while many generations have and will benefit from the changes they made in the past. In my previous post I said: 'they are taking the wrong money from the wrong people'. With that I did not state that I think we should not reduce state debt, nor that any previous Dutch governments was perfect. I merely stated that I think that the current government is not taking the money from places where I think they should take it.

Very well spoken ^_^