Schrijver
| Bush or Kerry
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wolf_
msx legend
Berichten: 4713 |  Geplaatst: 03 November 2004, 19:05 |
Quote:
| That's quite a bold statement you're making. If you really think that narrow-minded, Balkenende must surely be responsible for the murder on Theo van Gogh.
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What G meant was that during that purple period, the politicians and government were extremely political-correct. People who had complaints about that would receive serious namecalling, and institutions investigating demography and facts weren't even allowed to publish certain investigated numbers/facts.
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Latok
msx master
Berichten: 1727 | Geplaatst: 03 November 2004, 19:27 |
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| You know what the real point is, G? Everyone always says 'hey, let's wait for a couple o'years'. Up till now, no real progress has been made in NL, I feel. Look around you! What has really changed? It's society which has become a whole lot harder on it. 2 political murders in just a few years... I feel we're going the wrong way in NL...
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It was the 8 years of 'paars' that had led to the Fortuyn killing. I don't see how you can blame a then future government for a 'climate change' that already happened.
IMO we're going the right way, a LOT has changed in the morroccan communities. While a lot of youths are still rebelious, more and more organisations realise these things don't fix themselves.
And that alone is already a great achievement by the current government!
The changes are subtle, there's no revolution, but a lot of progress has been made, if you pay enough attention.
Saying the government is crap just because the economy is down and the government doesn't want us to end up like Germany and get fines from the EU is just herding behaviour, IMO...
Remember the economy is down partly because of the huge spendings 'paars' did, thanks to the PvdA, who didn't want to follow VVD's advice to use the 'meevallers' at that time to reduce the state debt.
THAT is the legacy the current government has to work with!!
In that respect it's similar to the large spending PvdA government in the late 70's which had to be fixed by CDA-VVD government in the early 80's, which after initial cuts and painful measures led to a large period of prosperity in the 90's.
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I completely agree with this. The current Dutch administration is doing a good job. Things are changing. The economical prosperity in the 90s has destroyed the people's minds and made them way too materialistic and egoistic. The purple government misbehaved tremendously and therefor, this could all happen. I hate the current critisism on the administration. Ah well, I hate the typical Dutch 'poldermodel' as well, but that's another discussion, probably  |
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GuyveR800
msx guru
Berichten: 3048 | Geplaatst: 03 November 2004, 20:10 |
Quote:
| Quote:
| It was the 8 years of 'paars' that had led to the Fortuyn killing
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That's quite a bold statement you're making. If you really think that narrow-minded, Balkenende must surely be responsible for the murder on Theo van Gogh.
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Besides what Wolf said, which is true for the most part, you misquoted what I said, taking it out of context! 
I did not intend to place blame on anyone, I was only taking away blame for the political killing of Fortuyn from the current government, which was not in power at the time of Fortuyn's killing! The previous government was in power then, and in the 8 years before that.
Maybe you should join the "let's (mis)interpret everything guyver says as an attack"-club with TFH...  |
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snout
msx legend
Berichten: 4991 | Geplaatst: 03 November 2004, 20:19 |
I'm not interpreting everything you say as an attack and you know it. However, you were the person to bring up the Fortuyn killing in this thread, directly linking it to the 8 years of paars. I did not see any reason for taking away blame, as no one made such accusations in this thread. The Fortuyn killing has as little to do with paars as it has to do with the current governments, and if I understand things correctly now we both agree on that.  |
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snout
msx legend
Berichten: 4991 | Geplaatst: 03 November 2004, 20:20 |
And I now even see you're responding to the 2 political murders post of D-Tail so: I stand corrected |
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Latok
msx master
Berichten: 1727 | Geplaatst: 03 November 2004, 20:30 |
Well......You could say that if paars would have acted otherwise, the need for a Fortuyn-figure wouldn't have been so strong.
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snout
msx legend
Berichten: 4991 | Geplaatst: 03 November 2004, 20:33 |
That would not have changed the existance of controversial people (and with or without paars, Pim Fortuyn and Theo van Gogh have always been controversial), neither would it have changed the existance of instable and fundamentalistic people whose only means of battling controversiality is violence, would it?  |
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Latok
msx master
Berichten: 1727 | Geplaatst: 03 November 2004, 20:38 |
It wouldn't. I just meant that maybe, Fortuyn wouldn't have needed to be as 'controversial' (was he, actually? I don't think so) as he was. And logical wise, he wouldn't have been killed......Aaaaah, just a long shot |
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wolf_
msx legend
Berichten: 4713 | Geplaatst: 03 November 2004, 20:42 |
Back then, controversal (which is quite a subjective term in this context, I think) people made the same statements, but they weren't really vented in the big media, because of the taboo and because of the fact that the media are way too 'politically-correct'. So, they were less of an issue compared to the people making the same statements now since Fortuyn.
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Latok
msx master
Berichten: 1727 | Geplaatst: 03 November 2004, 20:44 |
Media are politically correct? You probably mean left wing, right |
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wolf_
msx legend
Berichten: 4713 | Geplaatst: 03 November 2004, 20:58 |
isn't that the same? |
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[D-Tail]
msx guru
Berichten: 3018 | Geplaatst: 03 November 2004, 23:28 |
Quote:
| Fortuyn wouldn't have needed to be as 'controversial' (was he, actually? I don't think so)
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Well, he said things like 'De Islam is een achterlijke cultuur' (English: 'Islam is a stupid culture'). You can't bluntly say that, that's controversial. It goes without saying that it has to be explained. Which he did, but that makes his exclamations still controversial. And with his exclamations being controversial, he made himself controversial.
Now it's like I was totally against Fortuyn. Well, I'd say that if he'd been alive and worked towards the same goal that he did when he still lived, there might be a chance I'd have voted in favor of him. Many of his statements were right, imho.
[ontopic]So, it's Bush, ain't it...
Dhau happy.[/ontopic] |
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wolf_
msx legend
Berichten: 4713 | Geplaatst: 03 November 2004, 23:45 |
he was often badly quoted ..!
iirc, he didn't say that, that was purely what the volkskrant made of it..
He said something like: "compared to the modern western culture, the islam walks behind"
That's actually a different expression than just saying "the islam is stupid" ..
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IC
msx professional
Berichten: 538 | Geplaatst: 04 November 2004, 23:43 |
well.. the americans can say now:
"we'v got Bush" |
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djh1697
msx professional
Berichten: 549 | Geplaatst: 01 Januari 2005, 20:00 |
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