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It's totaly ridiculous and even ludicrous to enforce a translation patch removal the strict and rude way it has been done.

To be clear : it concerns the Aleste English patch. First distributed on a illegal way (complete patched disk image) on the personal site of a MRC/Bazix member, it was converted into an IPS patch (to apply to the rom image) by BiFi that has an IPS patches page on his own site.

Only for this reason, I won't buy the Bazix English Golvellius1/2 and Aleste 2.
I can't accept inconsequence and injustice.

Two things:

- Although I don’t at all disagree with the actions taken by Bazix / MSX Association / whoever against large illegal distribution sites like the one that started this thread, I do think that more generally speaking Bazix should first earn some credit with the community by showing some substantial positive developments before making demands.

- I wholeheartedly agree with the person saying that the confusion between MRC, Bazix or the Bazix members acting on personal account is partly created because it is usually unclear from what position the Bazix members speak. And, (seemingly, from my POV) changing or clarifying this position afterwards to what is convenient at that time is also not good.

I’ve got nothing in particular against Bazix, but well... I’m not really thrilled either. E.g. W00mb totally doesn’t appeal to me personally, but OTOH I *do* think it is a nice initiative (just not for me), and having a European representative for MSXA is convenient as well. Basically, I am looking at things with a critical eye .

I also don’t dislike the MRC . I’ve been part of it in the past, I have donated a couple of times, and although I regret some of the MRC’s policies I do think the MRC often reports and creates interesting news, and is a valueable gathering place for MSX-minded people (unfortunately, not accessible to all, so some of that value is lost) (that’s the policy I am regretting, yeah ;p).


~Grauw

yes i do now that funet is finnish and it is an university so what they are doing is good not evil

They are keeping a libary of all msxsoftware including games,applications,demos,hardware info and al to keep msx alive for every one!!

PEACE NO WAR

just an update:

based on true facts:

3/4 or 75% of all running software in the world is illigal
so that means only 25% uses legal software

by the way if you create msx software on a win32 platform its ported crap not real aproved as the msx logo tells you.

and dont forget allot of msxérs in the scene are older then 25

and young people are not intrested in a 8 bit game i guess....

so how do you see a market for such company as Bazix?

are they pointing at people who had an msx????

I see the one chip msx as a more real option thats more like a revival new breed new advanced hardware that sounds more prommising as they presented it i could even try the one chip msx
thats what msx will keep alive longer! MSX was not dead @ all so why do they call it a revival?
msx computers do not life for ever

and about that translation of govelious the little demo was made @ the fair it self using a hex editor

you should say emulators life longer and get more advanced tools......

but again I prefer REAL MSX Thats why i have a real msx no emulator can give me the same gameplay no emulator can beat that.

and for example take a look sunrise:

they are always making new msx hardware
they gave us better sound : the Moonsound(opl4)
they gave us a better videocard :v9990
they gave us a better and quiet storage medium :CF ATA IDE
they gave us a huge 8 slot xpanderablotronic's

So you see sunrise always keeps their promisses

If sunrise did not exist i would not such msxér as i am today......

Sunrise is keeping the msx scen alive with their inventions ofcourse special thanks to henrik gilvard

And offcourse all the others who suport the MSX Standard

like ese artists the true inventors of the one chip MSX

And ofcourse msx club gouda:

Novaxis SCSI interface
4MB Memmory mappers

they changed msx to what MSX is TODAY!!!!!!!

I don't know how well it's doing, but I tought the C64DTV (the joystick with C64 games that plugs right into your tv) was a pretty nice idea (actually, a borrowed idea) and its accuracy is quite amazing compared to similar efforts; btw, the C64 brand is now from Yeahronimo and no longer Tulip, but it seems they intend to continue what Tulip started; I bought my C64DTV from Yeahronimo and not Tulip, not that it makes any difference for the product.
Actually I'd love to see something similar for MSX....
I mean, just think of an arcade-turbo modeled joystick that you plug right into your TV that has Zanac and/or other classics on it. Would be great, IMO....

I'm sure the MSXPLAYer+game packages available in Europe is just the beginning of something bigger. (you've gotta start somewhere eh)
If we let Basix do their jobs, I'm sure we'll see nice things happening! The ppl behind Basix are really MSX-lovers, just like us. They have done great things in the past, and are still working very hard for the sake of MSX!

Samor, a one-chip-MSX with a cartridge slot and all, basically a full-fledged MSX, is even greater .

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I'm sure the MSXPLAYer+game packages available in Europe is just the beginning of something bigger. (you've gotta start somewhere eh)

very true.

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Samor, a one-chip-MSX with a cartridge slot and all, basically a full-fledged MSX, is even greater .

of course it is; but they could both exist; The fully fledged MSX is more something for MSX fans (us), or perhaps a low-cost platform for developers, and educational purposes too, but such a joystick has (I think) much more of a mass-martket appeal (and the MSX fans would still get one too).

Btw; the C64DTV has some nice easter eggs in it; it has a hidden basic mode with onscreen keyboard from which you can run several hidden programs. Of course it's not nearly as usable as an actual C64 that way though. Some people managed to hack the unit though and added a keyboard and other devices to it. Not bad, I'd say. But now I'm going offtopic.

You are here :

http://www.msx.org/forumtopicl4355.html

This thread is the most important of the MRC history and will probably become the longest MRC thread ! (already 10 pages)

mhoa .. what about the neverending msx quiz?

well, there's some concern about how this is all going to turn out which is very understandable.

I think we have to be careful with having our judgements ready to soon though (both positive and negative), allthough that's kind of human nature, I guess.

The events that happened so far are pretty minor (well, to me at least)... just think of the reactions if something, like, BIG happens

True, making too much assumptions is realy lame, but it's important to post and share POV. Feedbacks are an important thing for such a project imho.

Naked/fields/flowers/o_O/etc...

I think we should introduce a new internet abbreviation: RNFF.

After LOL, ROFL, ROFLMAO etc. etc. etc. we now have RNFF: Running Naked in Fields of Flowers. Supposedly, members of the MSX community do so to celebrate the fact that they can live in peace ^_^.

The problem is the following :

- MRC is a great site for the news, the discussions, the impulse to the creativity and the development of new software or hardware ; articles like the emulators comparisons or pictures about MSX fairs are really very positive things

- there was no big problem before the creation of Bazix

- first actions of Bazix are not really positive, creative, even if they have good reasons about respect of copyrights

- as the 3 members of Bazix are also MRC members, it's not a good situation: how can the same people have a business attitude and a hobby attitude ?
and how can the MSX community knows if their reactions are personal or the MRC point of view or the Bazix point of view ?

- as first actions of Bazix are not positive, it has a bad impact on MRC : if the people feel that Bazix imposes his views to MRC, then it's really bad for MRC.

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by the way the only company's who can sue illigal software users are the companies who own the copyright's!!!!!!!! (Basix you dont have any right do send mail to people who share msx stuff).

Although your posts are, like others already said, not very constructive, I do wish to make one thing clear: nobody ever talked about suing anyone. Please stop confusing ‘having distribution and/or trademarks rights for something and therefore placing a request for removal if someone distributes something that can really damage your cause’ with ‘suing that person’. The fact that we don’t speak of suing, has nothing to do with us having money or not, it’s simply not the way in which we work.

Our main point of view has always been to make an effort in taking the MSX revival outside of Japan. This cannot be done if a company is not established, as many companies are involved that don’t wish to work together with individuals, who could as well take no responsibility for their actions whatsoever. The fact that we erected Bazix might seem pretentious to some of you, but it is inevitable for pursuing the ultimate goal of getting the MSX revival outside of Japan. In fact, it has been a risk we deliberately took. If anything nasty happens, Bart, Sander and I as private persons will be held responsible as well.

Let me add to that, that also in order to remain credible to our Japanese partners, on whom we are still very much dependent, it is necessary to respect their policies. What I am trying to say, is that some interventions that have been done are simply necessary for pursuing our goal. We strive to leave the community as much as it is and we strive to support it as much as we can, but there simply are cases in which not all parties can be equally satisfied. It would be supportive if you could at least understand that. We are not trying to make anyone’s life miserable, nor are we trying to enrich ourselves at the cost of the community. We do, however, look for ways in which we can cooperate with the community.

In this thread, several very constructive views have been presented with which we were helped very much. Yes, we do take opinions of the community into consideration, yet we are not always able to explain everything we do on a public forum (or even in private), as some of the parties we are working with explicitly ask us not to do so.

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About Bazix not having copyrights on games from the MSX BOX.. how do YOU know which games they are licensed to distribute via WOOMB? If they actually have the rights to distribute the games mentioned in the press-kit and if I may assume that those games are also in the MSX BOX

Yup. And we have licensed many other titles as well, that aren’t mentioned in the press kit yet but of which we can’t tell the titles at the moment because of aforementioned reasons. I might add, by the way, that we are not only going to sell Japanese games in WOOMB, European games will be sold in both WOOMB and in Japan as well. There’s two-way traffic. In other words: getting non-Japanse (community) software into Japan is one of the things that is soon to be realized as well.

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by the way the software they sell wont even work on a real msx!!!!

You do forget, however, that initially the translated software DOES work on a real MSX and as we have stated before, never say never. As stated in another thread, our current agreements with companies such as Aiky (Compile), Microcabin and T&E Soft do not allow distribution on every platform we'd eventually like to distribute the MSX software we'll re-release on. It might very well happen that this software becomes available to run on real MSX’es as well. At least all the material is there, we just need permission, capital we can invest and a strategy in which to do this and the software is available for real MSX’s as well. Technically at least, there is no restriction.

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BAZIX is missing the oportunity to produce REAL MSX software. I would like to buy a GOLVELLIUS translated cartridge with full documents, or an Y's translated disks, with all the elements.

As long as we don’t have the three elements I mentioned above, we cannot do this. But I can tell you however, that we are aiming to put as much extra material as possible in the package that is sold. Translated documents belonging by games, original covers, posters, you name it and as long as it is something that is obtainable to us, we will put it in . In fact, the first authentic manual translation has just been finished tonight

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A MSX game brochure to let us buy games from the past in new boxes, manuals, disks and/or cartridges. Or even tapes! That is a real revival.

Yup. It’s something like a dream, but we must start at the beginning to get at least somewhere. As with the Japanese part of the MSX revival, it's all a matter of taking one step at a time. A next step can only be taken when the previous step has proven to be succesful enough. Each step will take larger investments. In Japan, it all started with EGG re-releasing MSX software... We at Bazix are already eager to take the next steps.

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About the MSX REVIVAL, the real msx "revival" (for me, MSX is still alive, not dead. Only commercially is dead) are compos like MSXDEV, with 16 new games for MSX 1 in 2004 and all the new real software initiatives. Also, new productions like music and demos, for me, are the real msx "revival". The Obsonet, the RS-232, Internestor Lite... are real "msx revival"

Isn’t it so that most of the community developers wish for their product to be used by as many people, as broad a public, as possible? Then why hasn’t it occurred to many that the efforts we are taking may eventually result in a growth of the MSX community? This effect is to the benefit of all of us: people with MSX websites, people organizing MSX fairs and meetings and people developing software (freeware included) and hardware for MSX. The more people know about MSX, the larger the audience for all of us. By the way, it goes without saying that we are very excited about new developments such as Obsonet, C-BIOS and various development competitions.

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Basicaly, will it be a " revival " matching (feasable) community's wishes or will it be a " revival " done in a way just 3 guys are thinking it's the right one ?

We highly appreciate (constructive) talk on the matter. We know the MSX community has many wishes to which we cannot all comply at first, but we do not close our ears and eyes to those wishes either. In fact, we share many of those wishes. However, we can not close our eyes for the legal obligations that come with 'the job' either and do hope that we can make clear that some goals simply are far from feasible at the moment. We are taking the road step by step. If you have any questions or suggestions on things Bazix could or should (or should not) do, you are always free to contact us by mail and as you can see, we also read the discussions on public forums.

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I think it's would be wise to remember there are thing you can tolerate for the benefit of the community as long as they don't realy arm you.

We totally agree with that and therefore another conclusion can be made: the distribution of the Aleste patch was considered to be harmful. One reason for that is a matter of integrity. I am involved in a project to rerelease Aleste in an official legal way and at the same time a patch is going round to translate this very game that was originally sold as a cartridge. It’s highly probable this patch will be misused on cracked versions of the game. I am completely aware of the fact that my distribution can be classified as such as well, but I will explain hereafter why I decided to stop the distribution and make efforts to stop the spread of the product. It is an important reason from my point of view as the one responsible for the content of the patch in the first place.

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Only for this reason, I won't buy the Bazix English Golvellius1/2 and Aleste 2. I can't accept inconsequence and injustice.

If we would have sticked to such a policy, there was no way in which the revival could be taken outside Japan. There’s nobody in the MSX scene who hasn’t done something illegal. You will not hear me ignoring my part of that, simply because I stopped these ambivalent activities as soon as I became involved in Bazix. That is the only way in which integrity can be preserved. It’s no inconsequence, it’s consequence. Everybody seems to forget that many things that happen in time, have a causal link. In this case, I was enjoying translating Japanese games and I knew that there were people who wanted to have such translations. I was not a company, nor was I different from any other MSX user, so there was nothing that obstructed my way of working back then, nor was it possible for me to do it in a legal way (I had never heard of IPS patches and my coding skills were not sufficient to make a patch myself). However, now that Bazix is here I am in the position to legally distribute the translations I enjoy making for MSX, officially licensed by the original developers of the game. In fact, we are looking forward to co-operate with people who like to translate MSX games to get more and more MSX games officially translated in the future.

Because of my MSX usership and my knowledge of Japan and Japanese, I became involved in the MSX revival project. Outside Japan, the main criticism on this project was, that it would probably be nice, but never get outside the Japanese borders. Together with the team that would finally become Bazix, we then tried to change that and started trying to get the MSX revival to Europe as well, making use of my Japanese and MSX knowledge. The project succeeded and to summarize a long story, there was no way I could let my previous activities coexist with those connected to the MSX revival.

In short: I ‘sacrificed’ my own translation businesses, knowing that things had changed in a way that it would be unacceptable and hypocrite to continue those. I therefore stopped selling the Sargon translations completely, at fairs as well as via my website. I removed them from the internet. And now there is the following consequense (not inconsequent at all): I would also have liked to have the products I once made in that past, to disappear in their ‘gray’ forms in order to be able to restart my activities, but now on a legal basis, in a way that can perfectly coexist with other MSX revival related activities. That’s where the Aleste patch mentioned comes into the picture.

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PEACE NO WAR

And this is one of the first times in this thread I totally agree with Poisonic

I hope this post has taken many of the worries you had away and will encourage you to think more positive about the MSX Revival and Bazix in the future. Soon we are to take our first steps with the launch of WOOMB. I'm quite confident that we will often pleasantly surprise the MSX community from then on.