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...which was the point of my previous post - thanks for the clear 'n blunt version Sonic

Sorry about that, didn't get to reading it since I was too busy shaking my head after reading the post I replied to!

Oh, I'm 404 not found!!! (well, plus a 1)

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Quote: Why would it need to handle carts when it can emulate the circuit board contained inside every single NES and Famicom cart ever made? Such a thing would be extremely popular as no other single piece of hardware, to date, is capable of such a thing. It would also be extremely illegal I'm sure there would be 5000 One Chip MSX orders if ASCII bundled every MSX game ever made with the One Chip MSX, but alas, things need to stay legal these days...

Why would it be illegal? It is mearly emulation at a lower level (circuit level). In most Western nations, emulation is perfectly legal. By your reasoning, an iPod is also an "extremely illegal" device. Sorry, but you are wrong on all points.

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MSXA could offcourse could advertise it like can run different systems with additional codes. Next just loby in the retro scenes about possible system. I do see some options here however MSXA should play it smart when it comes to legal steps. Officially they can not support the different systems because Nintendo won't go along with this one and other compannies won't. But they could hint unofficial support is possible. It's not the first time that I see some creative advertiseing like that. But I think it's to late for that one and I don't think they will reach the 5000 with One chip MSX alone by themselves. But maybe I'm wrong.

Who cares what Nintendo thinks? There is nothing illegal about emulation of the NES. The NES has been emulated for at least a decade now, and even today, Nintendo sells emulation of the NES in their classic GBA line, for example. Distributing game ROM images that are copyrighted by Nintendo, however, would be illegal. Of course I am not advocating that ASCII do this.

If the MSX community is too timid for their own good, then those who preordered the One-Chip-MSX, should consider preordering Kevin's FPGA console instead. Like I said earlier, Kevin said he would consider production at something as low as 100 preorders! Kevin's FPGA console has a surperior audio DAC and video DAC, so your audio output will be of higher-quality and you will have more options for video output such as S-video, where the One-Chip-MSX only has composite or VGA. Of course, there won't be built in cart slots on Kevin's FPGA console, but that can be fixed by either have ROM dumps of your carts or by using the MSX Game Reader, as Kevin's FGPA console has USB too.

The similarity between Kevin and ASCII's FPGA consoles go both ways. In the end, it might be Kevin's console that ships circuit-level MSX1 and 2 emulation first.

You might actually have a point there: there's a good chance everything will go nice and froody.

But what if Nintendo suddenly decides to kick their legal department into full gear? Is anyone willing to take the risk of being silenced by a harsh legal battle?

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In most Western nations, emulation is perfectly legal (...) There is nothing illegal about emulation of the NES (...) Distributing game ROM images that are copyrighted by Nintendo, however, would be illegal

'Most Western nations' is not the entire world, isn't it? And wouldn't it be best if the whole world would be able to see MSX back in full battle gear? Emulation of the NES -will- become illegal if Nintendo decides it is, historic legal battles have proven that. Regarding the ROM images - if the 1cm/NES/whatever can run the actual game carts and does not require ROMs, there's no need to worry about that aspect. But from what I understand, Kevin's project relies on ROMs and that will only aid into Ninty's prosecution advantage.

As I mentioned before, I don't think ASCII/MSXA (or the community) will appreciate their efforts in reviving MSX being killed off because of legal matters.

Time for a big )^_-): How many $0.02 did I post in this topic yet? Does anyone actually count them? If so: please tell, we might all have gotten richt without even noticing

How ever the change of getting green light of Nintendo is small due copy rights but..... emulators are mostly legal if you dont provide the roms

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There is nothing illegal about emulation of the NES.

True, but one of your earlier posts mentioned:

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Why would it need to handle carts when it can emulate the circuit board contained inside every single NES and Famicom cart ever made?

And that suggested that the FPGA should incorporate all the ROMs ever released for NES. And that my friend woudl be illegality to the max

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and even today, Nintendo sells emulation of the NES in their classic GBA line, for example.

Really? I didn't know But, since Nintendo is the copyright holder, there's no problem there, I guess...

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Distributing game ROM images that are copyrighted by Nintendo, however, would be illegal.

You can leave out the "by Nintendo" part. Distributing copyrighted ROM images by anyone else but the copyright holder is illegal. Period.

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And that suggested that the FPGA should incorporate all the ROMs ever released for NES. And that my friend woudl be illegality to the max

No, that doesn't suggest inclusion of all ROM's, just inclusion of all emulation code for all ROM types (similar to what MSX emulators do with ASCII mapper types, Konami mapper types).

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You can leave out the "by Nintendo" part. Distributing copyrighted ROM images by anyone else but the copyright holder is illegal. Period.

All entries in the msxdev competition are copyrighted, but you're still allowed to distribute them.

Hello everyone,

Did any of you get a chance to look in to this webpage of some Graduate student who was trying to implement this NES on a FPGA board of some sorts. His webpage is not available anymore, but used to be online some time back.Did any one else book mark this site? IF so, do you have any more details on the design that you could possibly share with me?

cegt201.bradley.edu/projects/projgrad/fpganes/index.htm

The guys' name is Dan Leach . I would appreciate any help on this regards.

Regards
krish

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Hello everyone, cegt201.bradley.edu/projects/projgrad/fpganes/index.htm

The site has only one reference on web.archive.org. Just Click here.

Before anyone gets too excited, let me point out a few things...

I don't think it will be possible to emulate the NES on the OCM. Even if they have the same FPGA, it's the size, speed and configuration of the attached memory that is more important. Unlike any other cartridge-based console, the NES is unique in that it has two (2) distinct, asynchronous buses on the cartridge connector. One is clocked by the video (PPU) at around 21MHz (IIRC) and the other is synchronous to the CPU bus. Unless you have 2 separate memory buses attached to the FPGA, this makes it *very difficult* if not impossible, to emulate. And the OCM has SDRAM, which makes matters worse with its latency issues.

Secondly, there's nothing inherently "accurate" about FPGA emulation. In fact, if you're trying to emulate an IC (eg. PPU) that has been reverse-engineered, then it makes absolutely *no* difference whether you're doing it in an FPGA or software - it will still be an approximation. Unless you know the gate-level equations of an IC, emulation is still guesswork and approximations.

In case you're wondering if I know what I'm talking about...
<members.iinet.net.au/~msmcdoug/puce/index.html>
<members.iinet.net.au/~msmcdoug/pace/platforms/platforms.html>

Regards,
Mark

Hah, we from Brazil dont need such thing... we still have SMS, Genesis and NES available in stores!!! Brand new ones!

... I know, it's crazy, stores sell side-by-side brand new Wiis, PS2, X360, NES and SMS - but it's true
(some things only happen in Brazil hehehe)

@SLotman, what is the price of a brand new NES in stores (compared with for example a Wii)?

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Kevin has reverse engineered each cartridge type (see his table "MaprMatrix" of the 100+ cart types), and instead of recreating them all in VHDL, he has instead recreated them using the lower-level and more accurate circuit diagrams into which VHDL compiles.

What? That's simply not true, and doesn't even make sense.

Like I posted elsewhere in this thread, unless you know the gate-level circuit implemented _inside_ the custom chips in the NES (and carts) then _any_ emulation, whether FPGA in VHDL or software in Java, is still an approximation based on guess-work. In some respects, it's actually *easier* to get a more accurate software emulation than it is in an FPGA.

I'm not doubting Kevin's work _is_ more accurate, it's simply that he has put more effort into making it so.

Regards,
Mark

There is clearly a market for hardware and emulation.... the Wii/PS3 and Xbox360 have picked up on that. But to be honest... it's too restrictive when you're used to emulators on the PC (or modded consoles)