there is also sprinter in Russia

@leo: Hmmmm.... The sources I already had here do not have a command engine at all (sources from 2002 from which I thought they were the last ones released)... So after a bit of browsing I now think I have the same sources you have, and they are much newer (2004-01-17).
The VDP command engine appears to be almost complete but it looks like LINE/SRCH/PSET and POINT are not yet implemented. If the OCM would have been produced, and the MSX-2 update would have been shipped, I would expect that those limitations would have been solved. But I could have overseen these VDP commands.

I wonder what the price of the package would be if quantities are 100 or below:

• Cyclone EP1C12Q240C6 : +/- 50 euro
  
• PCB 4 layers : 80 euro double sided would be much cheaper but is a risk : +/- 40 euro
  
• Video encoder (Like SAA7129) : +/- 10 euro
  
• SDRAM : +/- 10 euro
  
• Flash memory AM29DL164 : +/- 5 euro
  
• resistors/capacitors/regulators/buffers/etc : +/- 10 euro
  
• Clock chip : No idea, an SRAM based clock IC with RICOH PR5C01 emulation through FPGA?
  
• Connectors : +/- 15 euro (2xDIN9, 2xPS/2, MSX-cartridge, cinch-CVBS, 2xcinch-audio, 1xY/C, 1xSD)
  
• Assembly : No idea
  

So that would make about 180 euro without clock-chip, battery, assembly or casing.
Ofcourse the above prices are just guesses, who makes the numbers more accurate and fills in the blanks?
And more important : is someone able to figure out the 1000+ prices?

http://www.msx.org/photo17gal48.html

Perhaps Sunrise can give some info on this one?

On this photo this is the MSX-ESE with an external Z80.
Cyclone is quite expensive , cyclone II is 44 euros.
PCB is a bit expensive I belive signle side could be enough
Video encoder is not necessary for vga only output.
connectors coul be less 2 cinch audio + MSX cartridge + vga + 1 PS2 + 1 subd9
flash memory could be more.
I beleive Z80 are very cheap maybe an external Z80+ smaller fpga like spartan 2/3 could be cheaper...

If I look at the hisroty of my vdp.vhd I see that :
screen 7/8 +vga added by october 2003
screen0 width 80 by december 2003
VDP cmds HMMM... added by january 2004
this vdp is used inside kuni.vhd top file which I used to run quartus.
Compilation is not too long 2/3 minutes on my sempron 2200+.

I am looking for cheap fpga board with 512 colors, most of them have less
bits 8 or 64 colors ... I wonder if it is possible to extend an 8 colors to 512
just using some trick like very fast blinking.
at 31khz with 512 horizontal points , dot clock is about 15MHz , so there is
some headroom if we suppose that the fastest fpga logic can run to 100MHz.

A single sided PCB is hardly possible I can assure you, the signals on one side, with some wires on the other, it would be possible to get 100% of the pins connected. But a FPGA needs a real good ground+supply. Even a double-sided layout is rather risky if you want to make a layout which does not need any re-design because of signal integrity problems.

A video encoder would come in very handy if you want to connect the thing to a TV. (An 8-bit DAC which would go till 30 MHz would also be enough. I am busy improving a PAL colour encoder I have made, once that is finished / good enough, I will put the sources somewhere.)

If you would buy a cheap FPGA board which does not have to be used to run a MSX on, then you might buy the Spartan-3 starter board from Xilinx. That board has 1 mbyte SRAM, 8-colour VGA, RS232C, PS/2, LED's, switches, buttons and expansion connectors. It comes with software and a download cable.
I added a 8-bit DAC and a 8051 CPU to it and am happy with it.
Oh yes, it costs $ 99,- without the postage and tax. (If you are in Europe: Buy it somewhere in Europe, otherwise you have to pay tax over the REAL postage amount, and that is more than you have to pay to Xilinx I had to pay 34 euros tax )

Another point that comes up with a OCM:
If a nice looking box is put around a PCB, it can be considered as a commercial product. Commercial products must comply to all kinds of rules, especially when they are being sent all over the world. Did ASCII already take this into account?
I know that the prototypes from our company, which can actually look like real products in that state, are marked very clearly that they are not a final product.

But I still do hope that MSX-A/Bazix/ESE/Whoever will make it possible to buy a OCM(2/2+/tR)

I am trying to split the problem:
1- fpga : boards can be found for cheap
2- vhdl : could be free source,.
3- PCB : a specific design for MSX due to connectors.

In fact what limits today the implement of a MSX into an fpga is point 3.

OCM, is a product that combines a solution for these 3 points and has
been critiziced because of 2- and also because it was seen too expensive
for an MSX1 which might not be upgradable to tR (combination of 1 and 2)
due to lack of capacity.

So i think about a pcb , cheap , that can accept some fpga daughter boards.
The minimal conditions are then met. Of course , packaging and so on are missing
to name this commercial 'product'.

Yes, I received my fpga board yesterday : its a spartan3 with 1million gate capacity and has VGA/PS2 connections.
Lets see if MSX ESE VHDL design fits inside !

Nice!

Now I am a bit jealous, my board has a Spartan3 200k

And do not forget to share your results...

Oh, before you destroy your FPGA... Do not forget that the Spartan3 is NOT 5V tollerant!!! In case you want to connect some pheripherals take care about their signal levels. (you could use series resistors which are big enough to be able to limit the voltage using the protection diodes inside the FPGA, but using e.g. a 74LVT245 might be better)

@erik:

Quote:

I know that the prototypes from our company, which can actually look like real products in that state, are marked very clearly that they are not a final product.

Haha, same holds for me, though most time that's because there's some GPL/LGPL stuff inside. And an "INTERNAL USE ONLY" label is attached.

But maybe (y)our company = my company haha.

@pat: The prototypes I was talking about did not contain GPL/LGPL/whatever software because our company was very afraid of it at that time. An interesting detail is that the copyright notices in the sources had to be updated so that is was mentioning that it should not be used together with open source software. And we were told that if open source software would be considered, a lawyer should be contacted

Some puzzle: I can tell you that I am working at a department which could have had a short-name which is exactly your name here, but we are not allowed to call it like that... confused? At least your first letter appears in our company name, right?

But now on-topic : I would like to see an MSX-A/Bazix statement that pre-ordering the OCM will continue!!!!

P.......... what company could that be erik?

Mhh. It isn't PDSL I guess he! Nice notice of my nickname and your not to be used corporate name. I didn't thought of that yet And as you may've already guessed, or searched via the MRC contact list & LN (haha) i'm working at this watery lab, which in the beginning of the last century was started somewhere around your working environment. So hey, maybe w'll be located at the same plant next year...

Somewhat confusing for the rest of the community though ....

Next is nothing. Next are us.

Thanks for this 5V tip.
Talking about power the volage regulator on board heats a lot it is next to clock oscillator !
Yes terday I downloaded a terminal program on this spartan it just shows on vga screen what
you tiped on the keyboard , funny for my first attempt.
I compiled a MSX vhdl for "spartan automotive" target an it gives 37Mhz for the Z80.
But I put the right spartan I have then it shows a 236Mhz frequency ! I must have done something wrong in the constraints or clock declaration...
Note that for simplifications the Z80 receives the same clock as the VDP , so my target is a 21Mhz vdp+z80 system, to make
something simple.
What is still missing is to adapt the memory interface of the board to the msx vram/ram adressings.

Leo, it's hard to understand what you're saying. What do you mean by ''the right spartan''? If you subsequently recompile your design, you may have different frequency values due to the way the synthesis routine works. Because place and route is a NP-hard problem, the synthesis tool can't try out every possible configuration and selecting the best one. This would take much too much time. So you must be content with ''suboptimal'' solutions, more or less randomly choosen! But to my mind, this doesn't fully explain why the frequency values differ that much!