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an idea is to sell these laptops for $200 in western countries (which is still a bargain) and with the extra $100 give a child in a 3rd world country one for free.

Perhaps this could be quite difficult, to determine who will pay $100 and who will get one for free, in the same place/city/country.

Indeed, these laptops could be selled at $200 or $250 in western countries and the benefits could be used to sell laptops in 3rd world countries at cheaper prize ($80 or $50), it's an option

Hm, how many kids (or their parents) in Africa actually have $100 to spend on a computer?

Dunno about all this, while I support free information (internet) and means for computerdevelopment I really wonder whether the 3rd world actually needs computers now. (I'm not talking about the (oil-)elite and half_the_buildingcranes_of_this_planet_are_there-Dubai such). There was a period in western history without computers and I doubt the 3rd world has already had a similar period. It's like NL skipping 70..80 years from 1900 on and immediately going to the digital age.. would it work??

I think it's a question of buiding future. Today we live in a information society, access to this information is vital. 3rd world countries never will join the rest of the world if they can't access this information. The rest will come with time... but the only way to "reach" a significant upgrade level (in this informational and computerized world) is accesing technology.

But, could *we* skip 70..80 years, and go from the steammachine to the digital age at a fingersnap? Because that's what's happening there then. A common mistake of the western world is to superimpose its own ideas about life/society on non-western worlds and think it'll be allright. Just because *we* are quite depending on computers these days, does that mean others should use them too? Let everyone learn/grow at his own pace, not out our pace perse.

Anyway, the 3rd world is a big one, with various enviromental conditions, some could use a computer of some sorts, others really shouldn't care about it. As long as tribal riots and such are going on, I'd say to them: "grow up before you may use a computer".

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But, could *we* skip 70..80 years, and go from the steammachine to the digital age at a fingersnap? Because that's what's happening there then. A common mistake of the western world is to superimpose its own ideas about life/society on non-western worlds and think it'll be allright. Just because *we* are quite depending on computers these days, does that mean others should use them too? Let everyone learn/grow at his own pace, not out our pace perse. Anyway, the 3rd world is a big one, with various enviromental conditions, some could use a computer of some sorts, others really shouldn't care about it. As long as tribal riots and such are going on, I'd say to them: "grow up before you may use a computer".

Did WE grow up yet? Second worldwar is less than 70 years ago, the Balkan is very close, we earn a lot of money on weapon trade, officially supported the Irak war etc.

Indeed the 3rd world is big. Lots of noise about the offshoring to India at the moment, and we cant deny most of India being 3rd world. That is only possible if there is computer education. Education and a bit of stability and access to information may help lead to peace and economical wellfare. And yes, computers help in education and hard to censor information access.

So, where're all these outsourcing companies located in India? In the poor inlands, or in the more modern cities? (Calcutta, Delhi etc.) Would the ppl living in the inlands be ready for the digital age? (idem other 3rd world countries)

where do you think the people living in those cities come from, Wolf?

Any proof of that?

>>Indeed, these laptops could be selled at $200 or $250 in western countries and the benefits could be used to sell laptops in 3rd world countries at cheaper prize ($80 or $50), it's an option<<

... and then resold to the western world for more then $80 but less then $200! That's the way the wrong people make money!

I agree mostly with wolf_! We shouldn't impose our way of life to these countries! It just sounds good to have one computer for each child, but it isn't, at least in least developed conutries. There is one side effect on these project: Children from poor countries get addicted to the PC at an early age! So later, they will by PCs! And governments and some kind of humanitarian institutions should pay for that! It's an intelligent business strategie. Maybe it will have also some positive effects on the people there, but for the long term, it wil have positive effects on worldwide computer companies. Has someone thought on the adults of these countries? Maybe most of them can't cope with computers. They can't protect their children from internet material they condsider inapropriate! A better strategie for these countries would be to have a system independent form PC not one for each child, but one or few for each village. With some adults being trained to teach how to handle these computer to children.

"Too often, the computer is used in the schools, as it is used in other social establishments, as a quick technological fix. It is used to paper over fundamental problems to create the illusion that they are being attacked.
If Johnny can't read and somebody writes a computer software that will improve Johnny's reading score a little bit for the present, then the easiest thing to do is to bring in the computer and sit Johnny down at it. This makes it unnecessary to ask why Johnny can't read. In other words, it makes it unnecessary to reform the school system, or for that matter the society that tolerates the breakdown of its schools." [1]

[1] From an interview with Joesph Weizenbaum, Ph.D., Professor of Computer Science, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, in "Computers and Education", (June 1984) BYTE 9(6), p.225

Source: www.archimuse.com/mw98/papers/gerrard/gerrard_paper.html#en1


"Wir füllen die Schulen massenhaft mit Computern. Ein geflügeltes Wort heißt, "johnny can't read", ein Drittel unserer Jugendlichen sind Analphabeten. Ein Programm von IBM heißt "Riding To Read", und Kinder lesen damit anschließend besser. Das wäre erledigt. Was wir da gemacht haben: Wir haben ein Problem, das soziale, menschliche und politische Faktoren hat, zu einem technologischen Problem gemacht und das mit dem Computer gelöst. Was wir da nicht machen - Wir fragen nicht die einfache Frage: "Warum kann Johnny nicht lesen? Warum lernt er es nicht in der Schule?" Würde man die Frage stellen, käme man vielleicht zu der Antwort, "Johnny hat Angst in der Schule". Wer Angst hat, kann nicht lernen. Warum hat er Angst? Oder er hat Hunger. Es gab mal Schulen, wo die Schüler Mittagessen bekommen haben, aber die gibt es nicht mehr. Das hat mit Geld zu tun[...] Wir sind ein reiches Land, wo ist das Geld? Ein nuklearer Flugzeugträger oder ein kleiner Krieg in Panama oder im Golf kosten sehr, sehr viel Geld. Da ist es. Diese politischen Fragen werden verdrängt, sobald wir irgendeine Antwort haben[...] Wir brauchen nicht weiter die politischen Fragen, die gesellschaftlichen Fragen zu stellen, die wir stellen sollten."

Source: www.hrz.uni-dortmund.de/computerPostille/September1995/weizenb.htm

Attempt to translate:

We massively fill the schools with computers. A dictum is: "johnny can't read". One third of our children are illiterate. An IBM-program is: "Riding To Read", and after that the children read better. Ok, done! But what have we done? We reduced a problem with social, human, and political factors to a technological one and solved it with the computer. But what we haven't asked is the simple question: "Why isn't Johnny able to read? Why doesn't he learn that in school?" If one would ask that question, a possible answer would be: "Johnny has fear in school". The one who has fear isn't able to learn! Or he is hungry. Once, there were schools where pupils got lunch, but now, they doesn't exist anymore. That has something to do with money ...

So do we think we can solve 3rd world problems by just selling cheap computers to them, one for each child? We have problems by our own! As the homecomputers were introduced, you had to buy one by your own. Nobody came along and gave one to you for free. You had to show interest. You were insulted by some articles in magazines because of you being something today called computer kid. But nobody asked about that what you really thought!

Tanni, I think computers are the XXI century books. When books began to appear massively -on XV century or whatever- the countries more advance in technology, knowledge and life-quality were the countries who spread books among its population. I can bet western countries are more advanced as more books (and today, more computers,schools...) are used on they.

3rd world countries have a lot of problems, I'm sure about this, and a lot of people have to find food (shame on us) for they and for their childrens before get a computer and try to learn using it. And this is true. BUT they have to try to begin using the same tools and technology than western countries... otherwise they ALWAYS will have to find food day after day, and they never will escape out this terrible routine...

Niles, you can't compare computers to books in that way. A computer is more than a book, and there are several kinds of books, even such which don't help in getting a more developed country. The upcoming of books -- made by a printing process and not written by hand -- for everyone like today surely took centuries. The comparable process concerning computers is much more faster.

''I can bet western countries are more advanced as more books (and today, more computers,schools...) are used on they.''

So, give them more books, not computers!

With computers or in the internet, you can easily dissipate your energies. Computers are no universal remedy for every problem. That's why I gave the citation of Joseph Weizenbaums interview.

''BUT they have to try to begin using the same tools and technology than western countries... otherwise they ALWAYS will have to find food day after day, and they never will escape out this terrible routine...''

Yes, they have to try to begin to use some technological tools, but not necessarily these of the western countries. They must search for technology approbriate to their countries respectively. They should not become addicted to our western technology, which would be the case if they are just supplied massively with western technology, i. e. one computer for each child. If you had read my posting properly, you would have found that I made the proposal to not supply every child with one computer, regardless if it wants one or not, but to just supply e. g. a village with just one computer respectively, so that there is the possibility to have access to the internet, if needed. That's a better -- and cheeper -- strategie for the governments of the poor countries and therefore much more likely to come true, but -- fortunately or unfortunately -- not for the big companies, which want to conquer the 3rd world markets.