It seems likely that the OCM will be shipped without "the cable" and then the advice should read:
"Or just obtain a jtag able somehow and use it with your PC..."

Of course a PC plus cable would do fine as a means to replace `malfunctioning' gateware, but it seems I'll have to add the price of the cable to the total cost of the OCM when I decide whether to buy one.
Timbr's reconfigurator addon opens the way to hot-reconfiguration and may be an even better choice.

Why do people keep bugging about this darn cable? I don't see the point. It's pretty logical it won't be included, since like 90% of all OCM users aren't going to be using it. To have that 90% pay a higher price just so the other 10% have their cable hardly seems logical. The few people who are going to give VHDL programming a try can just go ahead and order one of these cables. I really don't see the big 'problem'. My Gameboy Advance didn't come with a flash cart either, I had to buy that for 100+ dollars to start devving too. Anyhoo, if you want to develop/tinker you buy the cable (or make one yourself), if you just want to use it as an MSX you don't...

I think that the meaning is that people do want to use this cable , more than the 10% you assume Sonic.
Second , it is said that after the asking for it by the first copy such as I have to improve the situation. Snout came up with the solution for the the second type and that it was very easy to update etc. Now that is deserted.
I agree with you that its optional, but it has to be taken into account , that there is demand for it. If you go to Bazix and say , please do me such a cable as extra I donot mind , it have to be present. Either you choose for SVGA cable, s-video cabel , or a VGA/RGBSCART

Well I won't be developing VHDL myself. But I would use new VHDL projects if they are available (new MSX updates or new systems (NES or whatever)).
The idea that I could lockup everything does sound a bit disturbing.

Comparing a GBA flash cart with the ocm isn't correct; GBA a console, the OCM is a computer and encourages you to develop yourselves). The OCM advertises with the VHDL development.

Another problem is that I cannot find any good information on:
- For what price do I buy a cheap JTAG cable (10, 40 pins)
- How to make one yourself.

I don't think it will really makes a difference for me as the OCM has great potential for the MSX scene and others retro scenes. So I will probably buy one (haven't deviced yet).

Yep, when ppl start dev'ing unofficial things (read: not approved by msxa), then everyone who'll be running such software needs a cable. You never know whether a bug's gonna freeze the machine..

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I think that the meaning is that people do want to use this cable , more than the 10% you assume Sonic. Second , it is said that after the asking for it by the first copy such as I have to improve the situation. Snout came up with the solution for the the second type and that it was very easy to update etc. Now that is deserted. I agree with you that its optional, but it has to be taken into account , that there is demand for it. If you go to Bazix and say , please do me such a cable as extra I donot mind , it have to be present. Either you choose for SVGA cable, s-video cabel , or a VGA/RGBSCART

Well, I'll bet you a nice cold beer on the next fair that there won't be more than 10 MSX users who are going to release VHDL upgrades for the OCM. And if there are only 10 MSX users releasing their work, I think saying 50x as many people actually bought the cable is saying a lot. Having said that, I did of course get in touch with Bazix and suggested they should have a look at the possibility of optionally selling cables with the OCM. Anyhow, if it turns out that they can't/won't/don'twantto I'll gladly go through the attic and look for the old soldering iron. It's not a problem for me to make a few cables for those people interested. I think most people will just buy their video cables at the local electronics store though, if they're not hooking their OCM up to a VGA monitor that is. In fact, I think many peepz will happy to hook it up to a TFT.

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Yep, when ppl start dev'ing unofficial things (read: not approved by msxa), then everyone who'll be running such software needs a cable. You never know whether a bug's gonna freeze the machine..

You can just test that before releasing your 'upgrade'. You 'flash' your new core, start MSX-DOS, try to revert to the old core. If that works, then it works. If you're sufficiently evil to not do that before you release something, well, then you're just evil. MRC for one won't publish cores that weren't tested, that's for sure.

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Well I won't be developing VHDL myself. But I would use new VHDL projects if they are available (new MSX updates or new systems (NES or whatever)). The idea that I could lockup everything does sound a bit disturbing.

Like said, that'd only happen if someone releases a pretty crappy and completely untested core. I doubt someone would be that mean, and MRC won't publish those in any event.

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Comparing a GBA flash cart with the ocm isn't correct; GBA a console, the OCM is a computer and encourages you to develop yourselves). The OCM advertises with the VHDL development.

MSX is a computer which encourages you to develop. It was often advertised as being a system on which one could learn how to program computers. My MSX however did not come with an assembler. In fact, some MSX computers didn't even include MSX-DOS! You could buy that for the low low price of like $500 or something equally ridiculous back then.

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Another problem is that I cannot find any good information on: - For what price do I buy a cheap JTAG cable (10, 40 pins) - How to make one yourself.

Well, that depends on whatever connector the OCM has to hook the JTAG cable up to. If the OCM does indeed come with scematics (as was said at some point) then it'd be a matter of having to look at those. If it doesn't, someone will have to buy an official cable and jot down the pinout for the rest of us...

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I don't think it will really makes a difference for me as the OCM has great potential for the MSX scene and others retro scenes. So I will probably buy one (haven't deviced yet).

It looks like it's going to be an interesting piece of hardware indeed!

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Quote: I think that the meaning is that people do want to use this cable , more than the 10% you assume Sonic. Second , it is said that after the asking for it by the first copy such as I have to improve the situation. Snout came up with the solution for the the second type and that it was very easy to update etc. Now that is deserted. I agree with you that its optional, but it has to be taken into account , that there is demand for it. If you go to Bazix and say , please do me such a cable as extra I donot mind , it have to be present. Either you choose for SVGA cable, s-video cabel , or a VGA/RGBSCART Well, I'll bet you a nice cold beer on the next fair that there won't be more than 10 MSX users who are going to release VHDL upgrades for the OCM. And if there are only 10 MSX users releasing their work, I think saying 50x as many people actually bought the cable is saying a lot. Having said that, I did of course get in touch with Bazix and suggested they should have a look at the possibility of optionally selling cables with the OCM. Anyhow, if it turns out that they can't/won't/don'twantto I'll gladly go through the attic and look for the old soldering iron. It's not a problem for me to make a few cables for those people interested. I think most people will just buy their video cables at the local electronics store though, if they're not hooking their OCM up to a VGA monitor that is. In fact, I think many peepz will happy to hook it up to a TFT.

It's not personal Since you suggest and even offering help. But if people are mostly talking all available of the box I think Bazix should consider to deliver at least a cable to get picture.
Thus the main issue is deliver it out the box , that was my thought also when we startedto sell the Gamereader.
And I consider also now simply to deliver also cf-cards with it, since people want mostly start immediately

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Why do people keep bugging about this darn cable? I don't see the point. It's pretty logical it won't be included, since like 90% of all OCM users aren't going to be using it. To have that 90% pay a higher price just so the other 10% have their cable hardly seems logical. The few people who are going to give VHDL programming a try can just go ahead and order one of these cables. I really don't see the big 'problem'.

The big problem is that people who wants to develop vhdl projects are discouraged to do so because no one wil use it. Take for example a NES implementation. Only people with cables are able to use it because there is no way back, since NES does not run msx-dos. And even when you have a cable and just want to play a NES game once in a while, you don't want to go through all the trouble every time.
In other words, the only vhdl development possible is making adaptions to the MSX, and even this involves riscs. If anything goes wrong when updating the gateware, you end up with a dead OCM (power loss, accidentally touching reset button,...)

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hm.. I estimate that 5000 OCM's will be made.. if an optimistic 20% is interested in buying games, then their (gamecompany) market is 1000 games.. if they make 10$ profit per sold game, then that's $10000 .. from that $10000 you've to pay probably 2 programmers, 2 graphicians, a musician, and a teamleader/manager/director .. my guess is that they'll skip.

In the past, I did the same calculus ... Using the same math a similar result would be
the "final" product .
Sure that I my opinion just one person for each job would be enough! A starting
revenue of $800 should be a nice start ...

In some cases even less for persons without a full grade in the university!

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Quote: Yep, when ppl start dev'ing unofficial things (read: not approved by msxa), then everyone who'll be running such software needs a cable. You never know whether a bug's gonna freeze the machine.. You can just test that before releasing your 'upgrade'. You 'flash' your new core, start MSX-DOS, try to revert to the old core. If that works, then it works.

Duh, every developer knows that stuff always works on his own dev-environment and will only start to show bugs on some one elses
In other words: I can test my evil core on my own OCM as much as I want and have everything perfectly working, the first bug will only show up when I load my core on some one elses OCM. And Mr Murphy then dictates that it will be impossible to 'revive' (*) that OCM without the JTAG dance.

(*) How's that for a pun on 'revival'

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If you're sufficiently evil to not do that before you release something, well, then you're just evil. MRC for one won't publish cores that weren't tested, that's for sure.

Sure.

With the pre-ordering started I was overthinking what would be the most essential new feature that would be a good expansion for the current standards (MSX1, MSX2 etc).

Wouldn't just removing the biggest limitation of MSX keep us busy again for the next 5 years?
If we add a way to direct access the VRAM it will give us so much more possibilities......

My mishlist:

-direct VRAM access.

Direct VRAM access is prolly the biggest diff with other systems yes..

Maybe it'd be nice to add some bits to the PSG/SCC freqs (it's now 12bit), this would lead to more detail in the upper registers, for vibrato and such..

One stupid question...
I'd like to load SymbOS on the O-C, but is it possible to use a PC mouse connected to the joy-port? (FPGA is easely reprogrammable to support PC mouse?)