I wonder why there are the so-called secret projects. We also don't tell what we're doing (hehe! ), but at least we registered the fact that we are doing something. I'd ask all those ppl who are doing something for this year, but didn't register their entry, to do so .. leave the details open if you want it all to be a secret, but at least tell us you're working on something. This would actually greatly contribute to this discussion as one of the discussion point is that due raised specs some ppl might not participate at all!

AND the MSXdev site is more accessible for non-MSX retro developers. Same reason look around in nesdev.parodius.com for ideas.
Next step would be to let this site "ventilate" activities to other (non MSX) retro sites.

MSX really needs to become RETRO big time.

@Wolf: You already know of our project. But we didn't registrate because we did know if we could pull it off in time (and we don't). But yeah you got a point.

@pitpan: Yes it should be MSX1 ROM GAME development only. I will check MSX workshop. Problem is that it can hardly succeed if it's a one-man efford.





Uh oh. Guess I am offtopic AGAIN

Huey - My post was not intended as an 'MRC should do it all', but I interpreted your post as a 'without the MSXdev site, there is no place to put your games on display'. I think the MRC is a great place to put software on display as well, and the amount of downloads from our downloads corner confirms exactly that. So if you create an MSX game that doesn't fit in the MSXdev specs of the year, you might consider distributing it @ MRC.

Quote:

Huey - My post was not intended as an 'MRC should do it all', but I interpreted your post as a 'without the MSXdev site, there is no place to put your games on display'.

No I didn't interpreted it like that. In contrary I DO think MRC should do it all. Such a site will not survive without a connection to MRC. The site should be entirely conected to the Development forum of MRC (IMHO).

Hard to explain, let's see first:

1) I'm with Viejo, point by point. Absolutely.
2) I'm with Mars2k. MSX2 (and devoted developers) don't deserve this.

..and now the tricky part:

3) We need a MSXdev with mixed entries; but.......comparations between 8-16K vs. MegaROMS (both MSX1) is hard; so in the worst case, comparing the first against a MSX2 MegaROM could be even stupid, it's a true abstraction exercise for the jury. Of course I'm not talking of MegaROMs with 8Kb of source+gfx and 120Kb of shitty samples. So....

4) We need two diferent contests, MSX1 and MSX2; but....are there enough active developers to fill the public expectatives?, I'm afraid not right now. Experienced developers just prolly migrate from the MSX1 and enter the MSX2 contest, maybe a new batch of novel programmers could appear and give a new blood to the MSX1 development, I don't now...so,....

5) For me the way to go is open both contests preinscription in january (announcing the prizes), wait three months and if the number of projects is enough to keep alive the contest, open it officially. If there're not enough projects, bad luck, there's no MSXxDev this year and as a developer you must to wait till the next year. Of course, once open you can add your project, say, till December. Ideas are welcome.

6) It's a must to emphasize that IT'S NOT NECESSARY to present a MSX2-MegaROM-assembly programmed game, you can go with a 16Kb BASIC game, just with some nice tunes and pretty simple graphics the trick could be done.

Quote:

I wonder why there are the so-called secret projects.

To avoid the shame and embarrasment of having to cancel an entry on the last minute

hey jltursan, always helping with clever comments! , btw, are you making any of those 'secret' entries or what?

Just an idea, to play havoc in the discussion:
a sub competition for the best SymbOS CPC/MSX game....

kidding again

Quote:

the way to go is open both contests preinscription in january (announcing the prizes)

Prizes? For me the real prize is to have new MSX games. The best prize is to know that people enjoy playing a game I've created.

Greets
--
SapphiRe

I think the amount of RAM has more to do with how easy or difficult it is to make a game, more RAM won't make games too ambitious or too big. So the RAM limit should be 64KB. It's difficult enough to make a good game. Most msxes in use have plenty of RAM anyway.
The MSX1 standard should have been 64K from the start, just like that the memory should have been always in the same place.

The ROM size limit however does influence how big games will be. I don't think there will be a lot of cancellations just because the ideas are too ambitious. Even with a 48KB ROM limit we would have tried to make a 'bigger' game than The Cure.
There might be some people who think that they can't compete with those MegaROMs. I mean, I can make a great space invaders in 16K, but will it stand a chance against Universe Unknown or even Nemesis?

So, two competitions might be a good idea. A 32K ROM/64K RAM, and a 64M ROM/64K RAM one
I'm not convinced a MSX2 (or even higher) competition is a good idea. But I think a bonuspoint system for use of extras like MSXDev'06 has is a bad idea.

Some statistics to think about

msxdev 2004 8K rom limit -> 16 games relesed
msxdev 2005 48K rom limit -> 21 games relesed
msxdev 2006 128K rom limit -> 7 games relesed (maybe)

It seems that the # of released games saturates with the 48K limit....
So this seems the best size in order to maximize the # of final projects.

If the difficulty to finish a project decreases with the size of the available
ram, 48Krom and more that 16Kram should be the best combination to
get the max number of games

(I say that against my own interest, I need a lot of space in ROM)

Now the right question:

What do we want to maximize, the numer of released games ? (If yes, let's go with 48Krom+64KRAM)
or we look for mega-games, like the ones that probablly we will see in 2006 ? (If yes, we go for MSX2 +128KRAM+512KROM)

In the latter case we will see very few entries, 1 or 2, and the risk to get with noting, due to lack of motivation, is very high.

BTW, if sameone can accept the challenge, why not to try a "freestyle" subcompetition ?
(with clear max specs, of course)

Read it in a different way: cancelations/registered projects.

Artrag - what you're doing now is exactly why I think this discussion is premature. Based on the projects announced and the 3 cancelled you assume that only 7 games will be released and you suggest that perhaps some more of those games might be cancelled as well. MSXdev'04 and '05 had many surprise entries, why would '06 be an exception on that? Even the cancellations/delays are not new this year... I'm sure some 'surprise entries' did not make it, and 'Cosmic Battle' had been delayed to (hopefully?) this year. Operation Wolf - an entry from MSXdev'06 - was not announced before its launch. It's just way to early to draw conclusions like this.

Of course, I know first hand that there are several projects going. Would they make it for MSXdev'06? I don't know. But I'm sure that everybody will try hard to make MSXdev'06 the best game development contest ever!

This discussion is interesting for the MSXdev team, because each opinion about the future 2007 rules has his importance even if some arguments are not so good as other arguments, but that's the essence of a discussion !

As the discussion here has already showed it, viejo and me have different approaches. The feedback from other gamers and developers gives us a more complete vision. So I can now see more questions to discuss than in the beginning of the discussion.

I can summarize the discussion in different questions :

1 - Do we need a specific MSX1 contest and a specific MSX2 contest ?

2 - Do we need a special 'normal' roms contest and a Megaroms contest ? (this question is actually not the same than the first question)

3 - Do we need to extend the RAM size for the 'normal' roms contest ? 32 or 64 Kb ?

4 - Do we need to extend the ROM size for the 'normal' roms contest ? 64 Kb in other words ?

5 - Do we need to add bonus points for extra features in the context of the 'normal' roms contest ?

6 - Do we need to add penalties for games that can't be played on a MSX1 with only 16Kb RAM ?

7 - Do we need to add limitations in the context of a Megaroms contest ?

8 - Do we need to add limitations in the context of a specific MSX2 contest ?

9 - Do we need to create a system of pre-registration ?

10 - Do we need to host on the MSXdev site also games developed outside the contests ?

Don't expect though that the MSXdev team wil decide the 2007 rules here and now. It's not the moment to decide that, we must first see the final results of the 2006 edition. And we prefer to discuss that in private area, as the team is composed with 3 MSX fans, who have different experiences and points of view. But our thinking on this matter can take in account the reactions on this forum, so I think the discussion can continue.