with our current climate, we don't even need to..

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Here in Brazil, it IS illegal to link to warez, or illegal stuff, and you can be sued for it (since you're supporting the use of illegal material by linking to it - it's called here "apology to crime", there were even singers arrested for songs about drugs, and "how cool it was", since the song motivated people to use drugs), and I guess that's the case, and why the magazine decided to remove the link - they simply didnt want a lawsuit upon them. Anyone could write to the magazine, pointing out that it infringed copyrighted material, and they would probably remove it anyway...

So, google is illegal as well in Brazil since it can show links to illegal content?

The reason why I don't really like Bazix action against the magazine is that I don't consider MSX MBox warez. Its an application that sure contains some games for which Bazix may have the rights to, but the intention is not to spread illegal games. A correct and more ethical action would be to ask/require the MSX-MBox team to remove the games that are illegal. Otoh, I think MSX-MBox could have done a bit more research and included games that were free or where the companies actually no longer care about copyrights.

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So, google is illegal as well in Brazil since it can show links to illegal content?

In theory, yes, it is. But only if you find a link on them, ask them to remove it, and they refuse to do it. Then, they can be sued, mostly because google uses "user submited content"; in this case they will never be directly responsible, unless they refuse to take the link down.

The magazine on the other hand chose to publish the link, so they were advertising something illegal; In fact, the magazine could be sued even without the link, just by motivating users to use the program!

In reality, nothing is done unless the author/copyright holder complains - for instance, if you buy any brazilian "PSX magazine", they are filled with "modchip" adds, which could give them a lot of trouble... but since Sony and Playstation are not officially in Brazil, nothing is done against those.

And as dvik, I dont see MSX MBOX itself as warez, just it's current distribution form, bundled with loads of games, that is the problem...

Btw, linking to sites that contain "illegal content" is also not allowed in the Netherlands. For the Dutchies, just go to www.rechtspraak.nl en check the following two cases:

Search for: Zoekmp3
LJN: AX7579, Gerechtshof Amsterdam, 1157/04
Datum uitspraak: 15-06-2006
Datum publicatie: 15-06-2006
Rechtsgebied: Handelszaak
Soort procedure: Hoger beroep

Search for: Indymedia or XS4ALL
LJN: AE4427, Rechtbank Amsterdam , KG 02/1073 OdC Print uitspraak
Datum uitspraak: 20-06-2002
Datum publicatie: 20-06-2002
Rechtsgebied: Civiel overig
Soort procedure: Kort geding

With the current unavailability of the msxarchive visitors to my site lost access to the manuals and files.

I have extended my available space (yes, I too pay for this free service for the MSX community!) and uploaded all files previously stored on msxarchive (thanks Tristan for hosting until now at funet and msxarchive!).

Please be gentle to this MSX manual and document archive, it will be shutdown immediately if I see mass downloads occurring.

Hans, http://www.hansotten.com

Sorry, I didn't follow the complete discussion from the start, but can someone post a short summary, what the problem is?
- the amount of traffic? (how much did funet have per month?)
- copyright issues?

summary:

• msxarchive went through its monthly traffic limit in a day due some article in a paper magazine
  
• people don't read and assume + yell the worst before investigating the facts. The paper magazine hosted mbox for a while, which was the reason they had to take it offline (requested by Bazix).
  
• significance differences between games and non-businessthreats such as system roms in hobby-emulators
  

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summary: msxarchive went through its monthly traffic limit in a day due some article in a paper magazine people don't read and assume + yell the worst before investigating the facts. The paper magazine hosted mbox for a while, which was the reason they had to take it offline (requested by Bazix). significance differences between games and non-businessthreats such as system roms in hobby-emulators

Hmmm, that is the summary from the MRC's point of view and hardly objective. Sorry Wolf!

This summary is from Wolf's point of view, not MRC in whole. He didn't say anywhere this opinion represents MRC view, so why should you label his words this way ?

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Quote: summary: msxarchive went through its monthly traffic limit in a day due some article in a paper magazine people don't read and assume + yell the worst before investigating the facts. The paper magazine hosted mbox for a while, which was the reason they had to take it offline (requested by Bazix). significance differences between games and non-businessthreats such as system roms in hobby-emulators Hmmm, that is the summary from the MRC's point of view and hardly objective. Sorry Wolf!

Calling Wolf's list "hardly objective" suggests you disagree, am I right?

tfh: explain the non-objectiveness.

The first point is a fact, right?
The second point is what we've all witnessed here, rather than asking/confirming, some ppl yell all doom around, assuming funet was taken down etc. etc. Or do you want to deny that?
The third point is is a summary of things snout and/or rikusu said: as long as things stay a bit low-key, such as system-roms in hobby emulators, then there's not much to worry about (it may technically not be legal, but rather be glad Bazix is not too picky about it). It's different when websites start hosting games that are, or are to be, in Woomb. And I'm not talking about dark corners on the web, but about large/known/company websites (such as this magazine publisher!).

How is this biased? I'd say it's not an opinion at all, just a summary of events we can all read.. (seen from my almighty neutral spot )

If MBOX is a threat to WOOMB's business model, perhaps WOOMB's business model isn't so well thought out? After all, what's the difference between an emulator and an archive of ROMz and another emulator and archive of ROMz? Note that these ROMz were not long ago distributed for a long while on the Finnish university network's official FTP archive without anyone caring.

Or perhaps they should target emulator authors instead? After all, what good are thousands of ROMz if you have no emulator to play them in?

Hmmm, kinda missed out on Wolfs qustions here last month

Well, the fact that you only mention your/MRC's view, and simply leave out the legal/moral issues mentioned in this thread makes it quite obvious. Even other mentioned that there is some hypocritical parts in the way the same people behind MRC/Woomb act in this matter, depending on the hat they are wearing. For some reason, you aren't mentioning that at all. How come?

No, the list you gave is YOUR CONCLUSION, not a correct summary.

And about objectiveness? I am sorry, that's just like asking Wouter Boss's opinion about PVDA matters. Don't expect a 100% objective answer form involved parties, maybe unless you speak to the off the record.

Cheers!

TFH

@idrouge: Problem was that MBOX was 'advertised' in a dutch magazine giving it masive exposure. Funet has been around for ages but when a comercial company starts providing links to ROMs its easy (and the right thing) to ask them to remove the link.

As for emulators; They are also used to create new stuff. Like me (and others) use emulators as tools for crossdevelopment for new games for example. And there are also some great free games (msxdev for example) and demos available.