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I just can't believe that are so many people wasting brains and losing time (and perhaps some money too) in a anti-something or in a anti-anti-something discussion.

That's the point this thread is trying to make. Anti-something is wrong, it's better to be positive and constructive about things.

Anyway, rest assured any discussion does not influence my MSX work in a bad way at all

hmmmm I have the feeling I'm not alone on this forum at the moment

Talking about the Manifest...

I believe that everyone has equal rights in expressing opinions and that this right need to be respected. However, I think that there are more adequate ways to express opinions. The original Manifest is straight to the point and always respectful. We surely didn't offend anyone cited there. We are democratic and opened for all opinions. The prove of that is that we did update several times the document just listening some tips and ideas from other users.

On the other hand, what I have noticed personally is that many people does not have the same behavior and try to defend some personal ideas with aggressiveness or imperialism. I have noticed that there are some "personalities" who thinks they are "the owner of the truth". Actually, they shows being more worried about them personal interests than about the MSX by itself.

Because situations like that we simply decided to ignore these groups that want to defend them position by force. Anyway, the manifest is real, polite and opened to everyone who wants to comment or participate, but we are 100% closed for stupid quarrels.

Therefore we know that the same right that we had in creating a manifesto AGAINST the MSX-Association any one has to create a manifesto SUPPORTING the MSX-Association. I just think that is illogical to create a manifesto against a manifesto... That doesn't make sense... Although, this is exactly "free expression" and we will respect them.

Anyway, if the authors of the ANTI-Manifest manifest decide to work serious I can create a link to them document in the official Manifest main page (since they make the same with us). Thus, we will be offering to the users who may are interested about this subject the access to the complete information (what, in our concept, is what matters: to inform the community what is happening).

To finish, I will copy the Slotman words: I have better things to do than stay arguing childish. I will not waste my time trying to defend our ideas because the Manifesto said everything what needed to be said.

We do not go to fight against that THEY HAVE CENSURED this subject in his Sites and lists, as also we do not go to strengthen us to convince nobody about nothing. In all the quarrels always there are three opinions: there are groups who will be AGAINST, other that will APROVE and always will be the ones that do not care about. I hope that these three sides learn how to coexist in a civilized and mature way.

I also hope that the MSX-Association publish something officially about what is mentioned in the Manifest. Unfortunately, the MSX-Association silence just fortify what is written there.

I agree with most msxall said here, but I do want to say that their manifest is everything but polite! I found it offensive myself, and I'm not even part of the organisations it is targeting. IMO, there really are some pretty bad insults made there.

Well, we are opened for all opinions. If you want to send us your comments about the parts you think that are offensive we will be very glad to take a review. Some time ago other user from this list had sent us a full text with his changes (lots of changes). We did read everything and most of the changes have had approved and we did update de Manifest.

msxall: it's good to hear you're open for discussions. But are you in for an open discussion (e.g. here or on the mailinglist) ^_^

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Anyway, if the authors of the ANTI-Manifest manifest decide to work serious I can create a link to them document in the official Manifest main page (since they make the same with us). Thus, we will be offering to the users who may are interested about this subject the access to the complete information (what, in our concept, is what matters: to inform the community what is happening).

That is very nice to hear. Please rest assured I didn't intend to be offensive, and I am not too happy with the early 'publication' of the document either. The idea from the start was to ask you if you could link to it aswell, btw. And it is not that I now decide to work serious, I always did work seriously on it from the start. However, as I said a hundred times before (yet people can't seem to stop judging me about it) *it was not finished*.

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Well, we are opened for all opinions. If you want to send us your comments about the parts you think that are offensive we will be very glad to take a review. Some time ago other user from this list had sent us a full text with his changes (lots of changes). We did read everything and most of the changes have had approved and we did update de Manifest.

The anti-anti manifest did clearly state the offensive parts, even in its ultra-alpha preliminary form. If you have read it you would know what we are talking about.

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I also hope that the MSX-Association publish something officially about what is mentioned in the Manifest. Unfortunately, the MSX-Association silence just fortify what is written there.

About them not responding, it reminds me of the current quarrel in our royal family.

~Grauw

<OFFTOPIC>

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>>I also hope that the MSX-Association publish something officially about what is mentioned in the Manifest. Unfortunately, the MSX-Association silence just fortify what is written there.<< About them not responding, it reminds me of the current quarrel in our royal family.

How does that remind you of that? ^^;

I think Margarita should shut up and visit a mental institution. What right does she have to use national media to solve a family dispute?! Talk about abusing power!
She and her hubby just want money! Ugh, what a rat...

It's an outrage I tell you, and if I were head of the royal family, I'd remove her of her title. Problem solved!
</OFFTOPIC>

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<OFFTOPIC> How does that remind you of that? ^^; I think Margarita should shut up and visit a mental institution. What right does she have to use national media to solve a family dispute?! Talk about abusing power! She and her hubby just want money! Ugh, what a rat... It's an outrage I tell you, and if I were head of the royal family, I'd remove her of her title. Problem solved! </OFFTOPIC>

Lol yeah, and away she goes!
No I'm rather referring to the royal family not replying Margarita's accusations... Okay it's a bit far-fetched perhaps and the situation is slightly (ahem) different, but what I meant was that if MSX-Association gets occused of all kinds of things they don't go shout back or anything but they keep their dignity and simply ignore them, whilst internally labeling those people as distrustful.

~Grauw

Yeah, that's what companies generally do. They keep everything behind closed doors and make press announcements when necessary. I think ASCII and MSX Association, unlike many other companies, have been very forthcoming in letting us know what their plans and intentions are and have shown great interest in our (=the global MSX scene) opinion.

IMO, those who complain about things happening behind their back just haven't paid close enough attention.

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IMO, those who complain about things happening behind their back just haven't paid close enough attention.

Well indeed, some of the counter-arguments seem to be based on some misunderstanding, or at least on thinking some steps ahead.

As always ... the MSX Community has this great
Communication ...

Heh, this topic is 3.5 years old.