MP3 player for MSX

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Por wolf_

Ambassador_ (9972)

Imagen del wolf_

22-08-2009, 16:40

Ask Rob about this when you meet him at a fair.
Already did. No result.
It is not that simple for a stranger/newbie in the MSX world, as he/she is having a hard time in general to find out where to get things and info. First time visitors, via search engines coming to the MRC, will not find out for example the excellent MSX faq maintained by Manuel. Or how to reach Sunrise. Or my site for manuals. Or the MAP. Or where to find emulators. Etc, etc.
Not every website may be easy to find, but at MRC's forums there's always someone to point people into the right direction. Besides, I wasn't telling anyone what to do, I was offering a solution. It's up to anyone to decide whether this solution is really a solution. At the same time, we're not going the introduce a PM system, or apply moderation of subjects like these, just because someone else's website isn't up2date.
Perhaps a link on the frontpage "Are you a newcomer to MSX ? Read this" to a page explaining where to find things in the MSX world may help and make the MRC a real resource center. Or is that too simple also?]
It's being worked on, we've labeled it 'MRC2k9'. We're not going to maintain the current MRC website code anymore.

Por HansO

Paladin (672)

Imagen del HansO

22-08-2009, 17:02

Ask Rob about this when you meet him at a fair.
Already did. No result.
It is not that simple for a stranger/newbie in the MSX world, as he/she is having a hard time in general to find out where to get things and info. First time visitors, via search engines coming to the MRC, will not find out for example the excellent MSX faq maintained by Manuel. Or how to reach Sunrise. Or my site for manuals. Or the MAP. Or where to find emulators. Etc, etc.
Not every website may be easy to find, but at MRC's forums there's always someone to point people into the right direction. Besides, I wasn't telling anyone what to do, I was offering a solution. It's up to anyone to decide whether this solution is really a solution. At the same time, we're not going the introduce a PM system, or apply moderation of subjects like these, just because someone else's website isn't up2date.
Perhaps a link on the frontpage "Are you a newcomer to MSX ? Read this" to a page explaining where to find things in the MSX world may help and make the MRC a real resource center. Or is that too simple also?]
It's being worked on, we've labeled it 'MRC2k9'. We're not going to maintain the current MRC website code anymore.

I was not telling you 'to introduce a PM system, or apply moderation of subjects like these', I was also proposing a solution, to make the MRC into a resource center, helping MSX users find ways to enhance their fun experience with the MSX. If that is what mrc2k9 is about, good. Tell us more!

Por wolf_

Ambassador_ (9972)

Imagen del wolf_

22-08-2009, 17:07

I wasn't saying that you told us about a PM/mod (mostly threadlocks), these things are things we've seen passing by multiple times in the past few years. Anyway, as for MRC2k9: let's keep that a surprise. Tongue

Por Manuel

Ascended (18864)

Imagen del Manuel

22-08-2009, 20:32

HansO, it seems you have certain expecatations. How about making those explicit? Just list what you would expect of this site. I'm sure it could be put to good use for MRC2K9!

One thing you already mentioned:
- very easy to find newbie link
what more?

Por Latok

msx guru (3870)

Imagen del Latok

22-08-2009, 21:44

I do hope mrc2k9 will keep its retro feel. Like ebay does, for example.

Por HansO

Paladin (672)

Imagen del HansO

22-08-2009, 21:47

HansO, it seems you have certain expecatations. How about making those explicit? Just list what you would expect of this site. I'm sure it could be put to good use for MRC2K9!

One thing you already mentioned:
- very easy to find newbie link
what more?

I do. You asked. At the danger of interfering with the surprise promised mrc2k9, or did I miss a request for ideas from the mrc crew? To be honest, wolfs answer to a proposal did not feel as the beginning of an open discussion: wait for the surprise (and for now shut up?)

The current MSX sites are lacking, and not what we MSX users, newbies nor pro's seem to be looking for.
I know, some of the following is black and white, just for the sake of the discussion. Not meant to insult, demotivate, show lack of respect or lack of appreciation for the hard work. Take it as a discussion starting point or ignore it, do not flame me please., I do respect the work of all attributing to the MSX world. I hate it when people start to attack/defend/flame/insult to avoid respectful discussion.

1. Yes, info, like I wrote about. For newbies, For power users.
The boring stuff for the MSX regulars. Like manuals, emu's, utilities, how-to's, backgrounders. A mix of the MSX info on wikipedia, the MSX FAQ, the MAP, the MSX Info pages, the emu info pages (BlueMSX has lots of good info and archives), the MSX Archive, our common knowledge.

Reading the sometimes imperfect/misinformed answers of MSX regulars here Wink we (self appointed) pro's need that too. What Wolf wrote about questions on the board being answered with good pointers is not what happens most of the time. If pointing to google is better than getting answers from experts here helping finding info, then why visit the MRC?

And publish info in a way wikipedia does , improving quality and quantity by volunteer editors and a editing mechanism.. If wilkipedia can do it, so can the MSX community. I often look into the MSX FAQ, making that a wiki could improve it a lot (being more uptodate and with more info contributed, now we let Manuel do all the work).
Even an essential resource as the FAQ is not on an easy accessable location on the MRC (and that has been discussed and refused by the MRC many times).

2. Community. Lets face it, we are communicating all the time on blogs, msn, irc, mail, twitter (some idiot japanese took #msx and made it protected Sad ), fora, hyves, facebook, myspace (is Second Life still alive?). And there we talk about MSX and often talk about other interesting things and reach only some friends.
The MRC has quite oldfashioned fora and do not support any modern community approach.

3. Search. Google finds more on the MRC than the MRC search does. Drop the useless search box and put google there.

3. News. As Rikisu said the other day, these are boring days! No idea what fills the newspage than with all MSX (and sometimes a bit farfetched MSX related news). Lots of things happening it seems, boring is in your head Riksu!

4. Repository/archive. MSX archives are scattered all over the net and on hard disks and floppies and often disappear without a trace. We llose invaluable MSX info that way. Good examples are the MSX C pages by Freddy Vulto or the Beer Interface original pages or the hard disk from Ries Vriend or hte Tubo 7 MHz page from Alwin. Thre are lots of those archives now on my website, but only if I am personally interested in the content.
If we do not archive, we loose info.

It may be that all this should and could not be combined in the MRC. But at least, the MRC could be a portal to all this info, and other organizations can fill in the other parts, working together instead of doing their own uncoordinated things. Now the MRC has no resource pages, just news and fora's and a small and badly searchable download area. Policies of the MRC also will block access to other info sources and storing info on the MRC, and there are severe feuds between the MRC and other parts of the MSX community. So we may need a fresh start.

Anyway, this is also not the time for (closed-source) solutions as the MRC is using now. It blocks progress (no updates on thr current codebase for a long time now due to lack of resources devoted to the MRC2K9 (or 10?)).
Use an opensource modern tool set with regular updates and leave community website development to specialists! The MRC made that decision/mistake twice before. Concentrate on layout, not on functionality.
It could be a combination of a CMS like Joomla or drupal , a wiki, already existing interfaces to twitter and one of the many excellent forum solutions easiy integrated with joomla. Give it a common style with a css. And enjoy the added modern functionality and quality contributed by a large community

This may need a new topic, we hijaacked the mp3 thread.

Por Leo

Paragon (1236)

Imagen del Leo

22-08-2009, 22:06

i care . interesting thougths.

Por wolf_

Ambassador_ (9972)

Imagen del wolf_

22-08-2009, 22:34

I do. You asked. At the danger of interfering with the surprise promised mrc2k9, or did I miss a request for ideas from the mrc crew? To be honest, wolfs answer to a proposal did not feel as the beginning of an open discussion: wait for the surprise (and for now shut up?)
Could you for once not assume the worst? Internally we've been summing all our (crew) own requests, these refer to the website from the user's point of view, but also to crew facilities (for instance, to make adding downloads less cumbersome, and to make the banners less low-level-so-only-snout-and-jorito-can-change-those). We've done this for about 2 years already, with tens o' things on the todo. Sander v Nunen has been designing a new layout and jorito is implementing all that, and probably a few other crew members will assist him with that. But to keep things a (positive) surprise for everyone I preferred to let things be. So, no: I don't want anyone to shut up.

1. Yes, info, like I wrote about. For newbies, For power users.
The boring stuff for the MSX regulars. Like manuals, emu's, utilities, how-to's, backgrounders. A mix of the MSX info on wikipedia, the MSX FAQ, the MAP, the MSX Info pages, the emu info pages (BlueMSX has lots of good info and archives), the MSX Archive, our common knowledge.

Information will be catered for.

Reading the sometimes imperfect/misinformed answers of MSX regulars here Wink we (self appointed) pro's need that too. What Wolf wrote about questions on the board being answered with good pointers is not what happens most of the time. If pointing to google is better than getting answers from experts here helping finding info, then why visit the MRC?
I was referring to newbies which I redirect to MSX FAQ for a complete fresh-up of MSX knowledge, code questions where coders point to MAP etc. We can't be responsible for the correctness of answers which people are giving. That's where a community comes in. If one code question gets a wrong answer then tens of others could hop on to give the correct answer. There's little we can do more than that, other than facilitate this mechanism by having a forum.

And publish info in a way wikipedia does , improving quality and quantity by volunteer editors and a editing mechanism.. If wilkipedia can do it, so can the MSX community. I often look into the MSX FAQ, making that a wiki could improve it a lot (being more uptodate and with more info contributed, now we let Manuel do all the work).
Even an essential resource as the FAQ is not on an easy accessiable location on teh MRC (and that has been discused and refused by the MRC many times).

Will be in.

2. Community. Lets face it, we are communicating all the time on blogs, msn, irc, mail, twitter (some idiot japense took #msx and made it protected Sad ), fora, hyves, facebook, myspace (is Second Life still alive?). And there we talk about MSX and often talk about other interesting things and reach only some friends.
The MRC has quite oldfashioned fora and do not support any modern community approach.

MRC will get new fora, but that's all I know, for the simple reason I know zip about internet technology.. I just assume it works and I don't bother for the backgrounds. How to deal with non-forum talk is something I don't know. (for the same reasons Tongue )

3. Search. Google finds more on the MRC than the MRC search does. Drop the useless search box and put google there.
It's in.

3. News. As Rikisu said the other day, these are boring days! No idea what fills the newspage than with all MSX (and sometimes a bit farfetched MSX related news). Lots of things happening it seems, boring is in your head Riksu!
If everyone submits his news -as far as it is relevant- then the general newsflow is as active as people want it to be. Do note that we still act as a filter between a newssubmit and the actual posted news. If there's news of the launch of a new warez site then we'll post it in the round bin.. Tongue As far as 'far fetched' is concerned, this is perceived different by everyone. Some may say that news about Metal Gear on the Playstation is far fetched, others love to read about it, being a Metal Gear fan. You can't have it all.

4. Repository/archive. MSX archives are scattered all over the net and on hard disks and floppies and often disappear without a trace. We llose invaluable MSX info that way. Good examples are the MSX C pages by Freddy Vulto or the Beer Interface original pages or the hard disk from Ries Vriend or hte Tubo 7 MHz page from Alwin. Thre are lots of those archives now on my website, but only if I am personally interested in the content.
If we do not archive, we loose info.

The answer is simple: in the current MRC articles can be posted and freeware material can be put into our freeware download database. In the new MRC this can be represented in a more encyclopedic way of course. There's no reason why information should be lost.

It may be that all this should and could not be combined in the MRC.
The only thing to keep in mind for MRC is that we should have permission to host it, either because the author gave us that, or because it's freeware (or whatever 'ware' something can be, I'm not a lawyer).

But at least, the MRC could be a portal to all this info, and other organizations can fill in the other parts, working together instead of doing their own uncoordinated things. Now the MRC has no resource pages, just news and fora's and a small and badly searchable download area. Policies of the MRC also will block access to other info sources and storing info on the MRC, and there are severe feuds between the MRC and other parts of the MSX community. So we may need a fresh start.
As I said a few centimeter above, we already have an article section, but if no one ever submits articles then, well, yeah, not many articles.. Tongue If other websites have new articles (the best example I can give are those game articles on Passion MSX, or 'dossiers' as they call 'em) then we make a newspost. So, by having our newsposts there is some kinda list o' articles already (kinda like a portal). But in our new MRC it'd be easy to create a page with all these kind of articles sorted.

Anyway, this is also not the time for (closed-source) solutions as the MRC is using now. It blocks progress (no updates on thr current codebase for a long time now due to lack of resources devoted to the MRC2K9 (or 10?)).
The main issue is that MRC2002 (what you're looking at now) is that the main motor behind MRC2002 is snout, and if you keep your eyes on MRC then you may have noticed that there's very little snout around, and this is roughly the situation since 2007. The main developer for MRC2k9 (or 10 yea) is Jorito, who's also a website developer in his daily job). We could soup up MRC2002 but that 'd simply be a risky business. So, we won't be upgrading MRC2002 and MRC2k9 will be a fresh new website with fresh new technology, and fresh new fresh!

So as you see, the points you've mentioned have already been scheduled by us.

Por Latok

msx guru (3870)

Imagen del Latok

22-08-2009, 22:42

I am quite sure the mrc crew recognizes the site needs some kind of wiki and a better search engine. I agree with many of hanso his suggestions but i think for most of them it is not the site layout that is essential. Its the people who count. Writing articles takes a lot of time and motivation. Thats the real struggle, i think.

Por HansO

Paladin (672)

Imagen del HansO

22-08-2009, 23:07

Thanks for the answers wolf.

Could you for once not assume the worst? ..

Hm. Do I always assume the worst? Thats an interesting way to start an answer a post written with an open mind and respect for all.

Well, sorry, I do have to assume the worst and feel the open discussion is not welcome, since you continue my assesment of assuming always the worst with 'Internally we've been summing all our (crew) own requests, these refer to the website from the user's point of view ... ' Does that exclude an open external discussion by users with a users point of view?

Again, I do respect the work of all in the MSX community, including the MRC crew. But I also do not always have to agree with all. So could you, by not starting an answer to a positive meant post with a personal negative remark.

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