MSX Wings, port of a famous 90's game/MSX 2+/SC11 (Demo/WIP/POC)

Champion (473)

16-01-2022, 13:30

ARTRAG wrote:

Do you plan a 2+ only version?
If you are going to use only the vertical scrolling maybe a screen 8 version is doable too

The sprites would be greatly impacted with the fixed pallete.

Por erpirao

Paragon (1315)

16-01-2022, 14:47

for MSX2, a version in sc7?, the color impact could be supplied with a dynamic palette and higher resolution.
and keep the "multicolor" sprites
I'm a screen7 lover

Por Grauw

Ascended (10767)

16-01-2022, 15:16

Looks very, very cool! I see a lot of untapped potential.

A thought that has been in my mind for a while is that, I think a powerful way to use the MSX2+ YJK modes for games is to use the palette colours for sprites (and optionally static objects), and the YJK colours for the backgrounds.

Then it becomes easier to work with the 16 palette colours because you don’t have to worry anymore about also having colours in there for the background, they’re just for the sprites. At the same time, the background is not constrained to few colours leading to more colourful imagery. The “only problem” is of course that the backgrounds have to be drawn with YJK’s constraints, which requires an unfamiliar skill set and workflow, a problem I still haven’t completely solved for myself.

One key thought here is that ideally in a game, sprites should have contrast and saturation, while backgrounds benefit from being slightly desaturated and less contrasted. Since the palette colours are 9-bit while the YJK colours are 15-bit, they will already have a difference in contrast. And the YJK mode also lends itself better to desaturated artwork and (sometimes) soft edges. So I think it’s interesting how this division, palette for sprites and YJK for background, already naturally leans towards artwork that satisfies this rule.

Por Pac

Scribe (7007)

16-01-2022, 16:33

albs_br wrote:

ARTRAG wrote:

Do you plan a 2+ only version?
If you are going to use only the vertical scrolling maybe a screen 8 version is doable too

The sprites would be greatly impacted with the fixed pallete.

Impressive project . I have the same opinion as ARTRAG. I'm sure a screen 8 version would be very welcome. Precisely MSX users are not too demanding and we are used to playing 16 colors games in most cases. I'm sure people won't complain about that . On top of that, your game would reach more people.

Por Grauw

Ascended (10767)

16-01-2022, 16:47

Pac wrote:

albs_br wrote:

The sprites would be greatly impacted with the fixed pallete.

I have the same opinion as ARTRAG. I'm sure a screen 8 version would be very welcome.

But as albs_br wrote, in screen 8 you can not use the palette for sprites. There are only fixed colours that are quite ugly in my opinion, and at least limiting.

Besides, MSX2+ deserves to have more games. I wish people would not go like “can’t this be done on MSX2” every time an MSX2+ project pops up. It’s as if every time someone shows an MSX2 project people would suggest to make it for MSX1 instead.

Pac wrote:

Precisely MSX users are not too demanding and we are used to playing 16 colors games in most cases. I'm sure people won't complain about that .

Hey, speak for yourself! I love the 16-bit look of YJK.

Por Bengalack

Paladin (747)

16-01-2022, 16:47

albs_br wrote:

What are your impressions?

Cool! And possibly an eye-opener for me. Screen 11, yjk, blocks, and a mix of static and palette? Is this is a little known screen mode, or is it just me? Screen 11 has never caught my attention. Until now

Por Grauw

Ascended (10767)

16-01-2022, 16:49

@Bengalack You may find The YJK screen modes article on the MAP interesting.

Por syn

Prophet (2123)

16-01-2022, 16:53

Bengalack wrote:

albs_br wrote:

What are your impressions?

Cool! And possibly an eye-opener for me. Screen 11, yjk, blocks, and a mix of static and palette? Is this is a little known screen mode, or is it just me? Screen 11 has never caught my attention. Until now

this is pretty common/known... ppl have been screaming/dreaming about this setup for years now, sprites with normal palette and background yjk.

There has been 1 or 2 screen 11 games afaik, a shooter and a puzzle game i think, and some techdemos/unfinished stuff like mkid and that slotman demo.

Por Pac

Scribe (7007)

16-01-2022, 17:08

Grauw wrote:

Pac wrote:

albs_br wrote:

The sprites would be greatly impacted with the fixed pallete.

I have the same opinion as ARTRAG. I'm sure a screen 8 version would be very welcome.

But as albs_br wrote, in screen 8 you can not use the palette for sprites. There are only fixed colours that are quite ugly in my opinion, and at least limiting.

Besides, MSX2+ deserves to have more games. I wish people would not go like “can’t this be done on MSX2” every time an MSX2+ project pops up. It’s as if every time someone shows an MSX2 project people would suggest to make it for MSX1 instead.

Pac wrote:

Precisely MSX users are not too demanding and we are used to playing 16 colors games in most cases. I'm sure people won't complain about that .

Hey, speak for yourself! I love the 16-bit look of YJK.

Me too! We miss games like this. Just say that I have a MSX2+ . IMHO such an impressive game deserves both versions for the benefit of the MSX scene.

Por Bengalack

Paladin (747)

16-01-2022, 17:22

syn wrote:

There has been 1 or 2 screen 11 games afaik, a shooter and a puzzle game i think, and some techdemos/unfinished stuff like mkid and that slotman demo.

Oops, that is a disturbingly low number

Grauw wrote:

@Bengalack You may find The YJK screen modes article on the MAP interesting.

Will certainly read this ASAP! ... but hey, I'm totally getting derailed today, I was supposed to do all that other stuff :D :D :D