- To everyone interested in MSX music remakes -

Champion (413)

18-01-2007, 10:22

I've just released that new XAK 2 remake but most of you noticed it's been a long time since the last one i did. Which was SD Snatcher end demo IIRC. Unfortunately, other "remakers" seem to have greatly slowed down too.

In my case i ran out of free time and i've been quite busy with real life. I think it's the same problem for everyone, i guess...

Usualy, what prevents me from making new arrangements is the very boring notes retrieval process.
I say boring because when i start to work on a tune, i like accurate notes transcription and sometimes that requires a bit of time to have everything right.

Unfortunately, the whole notes retrieval thingie ISN'T FUN AT ALL, no matter if it's quickly done or not.

I'd humbly like to request AGAIN something like a KSS to .MID or perhaps a .MID out in OpenMSX / BlueMSX...
Well, in simple word WHATEVER that would help to have the base notes quickly retrieved.
This way, i can concetrate on the creative and fun part of the arranging process.

I remember asking something similar some years ago and saw people shocked by my request.
Personaly, i've done enough remakes so i don't need to prove my musical skills or prove i've good ears, haven't i ?

But the fact is : No more remakes are coming !

To all skilled people out there, please help on that matter, thanks in advance !

I'd like to encourage ppl to make remakes anew, so here is a link to a midifile containing the basic notes of that XAK 2 intro : http://www.j-war.net/midifiles/xak2intro.zip
This way, everyone can play with it and make his own.
There's no need to be a skilled musician or to spend month on a song, just have fun yourself and we'll all be happy in the end LOL!

I'll publish more midifiles later so everyone can have fun with them.
I'd like to encourage all of you to do the same, put your ego behind and let's share with everyone.

Of course, maybe noone is interested in hearing or creating MSX remakes, in this case please forgive me and just forget this thread ! :P

If not, then read above again then :RNFF:
RNFF'ly yours
J-War

By RobertVroemisse

Paragon (1308)

18-01-2007, 10:45

Thanks for the MIDI file. I have had the same problem with remakes. The arranging part is cool but the note rerieval process is very boring. That's why I have asked two good friends of mine, Jan Wilmans and Aaldert Dekker, to come up with a solution. They are working on a new MSX emulator called Nowind. The last time I have seen it, it was a very basic emulator but it could read out music data (fm-pac only at the time) and convert it to a mbm-file. You can read more about this emulator on the Nowind site. I don't know the status of the project because I have been busy with other things and because I am lazy. They will be at the Nijmegen MSX fair this weekend.

By J-War

Champion (413)

18-01-2007, 10:51

Thanks for the info.
2 questions :
- is this "mbm" format any helpful ? I assume it's some moonblaster proprietary format, can't imagine loading it into sonar 6
- does it also log the TEMPO ? If not, the whole thing is almost useless as you have to edit events manualy so it fits in the real tempo.

By RobertVroemisse

Paragon (1308)

18-01-2007, 11:44

mbm is the standard moonblaster for fmpac/audio file format. At that time it didn't log the tempo. It created a file with a very high tempo and a lot of space between the different notes. But if you played the file, the tempo of the music was right. I have asked the programmers to export to a standard MIDI file some time ago. They said that that was possible but it would take some time. Don't know the current status though.

Is Sonar 6 any good? I use Reason 3 for my music (and ofcourse moonblaster -duh-)

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9950)

18-01-2007, 11:44

MBM is fixed to a grid of 16th notes, you can't have triplets for instance, unless you speed up the tempo in order to have a more detailed grid.. which all looks quite messy.

A week ago I requested automatic channel-seperated audio-logging @ the openmsx ppl. (which would mean that in case of Xak one gets 10 or 12 waves, namely one for each channel) Dunno whether that will bring anything, afaik they're not really into audio.

The last time I was re-arranging (attempting to ) was some weeks ago, for one of the SD-Snatcher intros, I exported each channel from KSS and ran them on my notebook while I was extracting the notes from the audiotracks on my music-PC. It somewhat worked, but it wasn't ideal.

The following could be a solution:

Some smart-ass records volumes, voicedata and frequencies while a tune is playing on an MSX (some BGM player orso, we only need to make sure there *is* a BGM player for all required tunes (Konami, Microcabin, Falcom, Compile, Hertz etc.)). Since these game-players prolly work using ints we have a resolution of 50 or 60 'steps' a second. Then this smart-ass coder would convert these freqs to notes and put them into this grid. Then the user should be able to "zoom out " (not really zooming) by placing markers on regular positions (could be automated for fixed tempos) or hiding data, these markers represent something like quarternotes, an easy guide for composers to follow a tune.

So, for instance:

Here's your logged data (at 50hz or 60hz) for FM-Pac (note, instrument, volume)

- C 4 01 14
- ... .. ..
- ... .. ..
- ... .. ..
- ... .. 13
- ... .. 12
- ... .. 11
- --- -- --
- D 4 01 14
- ... .. ..
- ... .. ..
- ... .. ..
- ... .. ..
- ... .. ..
- ... .. ..
- --- -- --

One can 'zoom out' by -for instance- dividing all these rows by 4. Then what we see is

- C 4 01 14
- ... .. 13
- D 4 01 14
- ... .. ..

This is far better readable.

Anyhoo it's merely a sketch of an idea.

In any case, PSG, FM, SCC registers can be read out, so basically it *is* possible to convert all these tunes to *some* format.

As for me: atm I dump all these channels of tunes using KSS (konami) or Imagine (Microcabin) .. this is utterly boring to do for one tune already, let alone the hundreds of tunes in the XAK series + Fray. In theory it would mean that if a tune lasts 2 minutes, and there are 8 writable channels (Konami), then you'll be diskwriting for 16 minutes, excluding the unmuting/muting/changing filenames etc.

By Manuel

Ascended (18724)

18-01-2007, 17:03

You can log the registers of any chip with openMSX. A smart scripter converts that into notes.

To get started, try this:

help reg_log

By OdontoMan

Rookie (18)

18-01-2007, 19:24

would be helpfull to have "in sonar" a piece of MSX music in a track but syncronized with sonar's tempo?
Always when I want to remake something, I do this. After the syncronization, it is possible to record (sonar) the notes of the original music in MIDI format by hearing and playing on a synthesizer.
If this way helps you, tell me. I can help you with the boring part of the remaking process.

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9950)

18-01-2007, 20:00

Somehow I think remaking by listening to it makes more sense than 1:1 converting to a midifile, often enough parts need to be completely changed anyway, for instance when working with switchkeys in softsamplers, or several articulations spread across the C0-B9 keys.

By Jorito

Mr. Ambassadors (1782)

18-01-2007, 20:30

Well, I do remakes occasionally, but I don't release them as stand alone songs. Instead I create them for remakes like the Goonies, F-1 Spirit, Maze of Galious, and some other songs were released on Arranger Platinum in stead of posting them here. Check out http://www.jorito.net/files/goonies/cave1.ogg and http://www.jorito.net/files/goonies/cave2.ogg if you don't believe me :P

Anyways, back to the subject of MIDI sharing... I still have some nice MIDI versions or Sonar versions of my songs around. If people are interested, I could post them here. Just give me a yell or so.

By Shiru

Expert (115)

18-01-2007, 23:55

does it also log the TEMPO ? If not, the whole thing is almost useless as you have to edit events manualy so it fits in the real tempo.
There is no way to extract tempo from PSG log. Until you develop AI, comparable with your own intellect This is because no tempo information presents in log at all.

Anyway, heavy clean-up will be needed for converted file, so using PSG>MID converters for cover-making purposes is just a way to replace one boring work to another.

When I made some midi covers from NES games, I use one-channel recording to .wav file from emulators (by switching off some channels), and then sequence notes with using my ears, and freq. analysers in some hard parts (they work very good with one-channel PSG records). It's a good method and not so boring way to make exact covers, but boring anyway.

By DamageX

Master (217)

19-01-2007, 02:50

If there is an emulator that can log PSG/FM register writes to a file (similar to how the Genesis .GYM files are). Then it should be no problem to convert it to a MIDI file with at least the right pitches at the right times. I have done something like this in the past.

I see manuel says that openMSX can log the register writes. Is some timing information included also? Like a byte that marks the occurence of vblank perhaps?