BeerIDE emulation with LBA support?

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By NYYRIKKI

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01-12-2022, 08:45

gdx wrote:

Can we also create the partitions and format them under SymbOS?

AFAIK such application does not exist ATM. In general all of the partitioning/formatting tools for MSX are pretty bad or at least outdated & limited regardless of what interface or OS we talk about. None of them can ie. create FAT32 or exFAT partitions while those are popular formats on other systems especially when talking about removable media.

How ever in reality the situation is not that bad as you can get memory card reader for PC more easily and with less cost than you can get blank DD-disks. After this investment you can do partitioning/formatting there by simply swapping the card. (Even if people use BeerIDE, I don't expect that they really use physical HDD in 2022) As the whole partitioning/formatting stuff is not something you would do daily, I think the situation is practically ok enough.

By gdx

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01-12-2022, 09:18

NYYRIKKI wrote:

AFAIK such application does not exist ATM. In general all of the partitioning/formatting tools for MSX are pretty bad or at least outdated & limited regardless of what interface or OS we talk about.

I like the method used by Nextor. It is advanced enough.

NYYRIKKI wrote:

create FAT32 or exFAT partitions while those are popular formats on other systems especially when talking about removable media.

I think it's more limitation caused by the system and hardware.

For me, we can say that it is not advanced enough only when the software does not do its job well in certain situations. This is the case for beer. It's almost impossible to create partitions on MSX, and its Disk-ROM doesn't like additional Disk-ROMs. There we can say that the interface is not evolved.

By Prodatron

Paragon (1827)

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01-12-2022, 09:56

As NYYRIKKI said there is currently no partitioning tool for SymbOS (there is only one special one for one single special hardware with one single special size).
My old thoughts were that you can do all this on PC side, and as SymbOS supports FAT32 one partition is enough anyway. Today I think it would be fine to have a tool, which creates one small FAT12 partition for booting and one second big FAT32 partition, which uses the remaining space and can be accessed in SymbOS.
What I don't understand is, why every MSX mass storage hardware needs its own partitioning tool, as they all support the MBR and 1-4 primary partitions, so it should be all the same?

By edoz

Prophet (2458)

edoz's picture

01-12-2022, 10:12

It is a really cool idea to have a good partition tool for SymbOS. Then you have just one tool to use on all your supported storage devices. I wonder if we make a GUI version of it will be the first graphical partition manager for an 8-bit system Wink

By Prodatron

Paragon (1827)

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01-12-2022, 10:47

Would be a nice idea for a Quigs application Smile
The only problem is, that SymbOS currently relys on existing partition(s) and so the drivers don't include a function for detecting the total size of a storage. But you could type in the size manually in such a partition tool.

By NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (6010)

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02-12-2022, 01:15

gdx wrote:

I like the method used by Nextor. It is advanced enough.

Now I must say that I have very faint memories... I remember doing it once or twice and back then at least I think it first asked if I want to create FAT16 partitions and then selected the actual program. I remember that in the end the job was done, but it was more than horrible user experience that made you more sure that you destroy everything instead of giving idea of what you are actually doing when you are inserting these numbers. Automatic function was working well IIRC. Before going any further I think I need to take another look.

gdx wrote:

I think it's more limitation caused by the system and hardware.

For me, we can say that it is not advanced enough only when the software does not do its job well in certain situations. This is the case for beer. It's almost impossible to create partitions on MSX, and its Disk-ROM doesn't like additional Disk-ROMs. There we can say that the interface is not evolved.

You said it... It is only opinion that Beer IDE is bad... Bit banging sounds a bit slow and delivered software is bad, but I would say: Lift the ROM from socket and put it to bin... After that it sounds like super cheap DIY CF-reader for SymbOS that luckily does not affect normal MSX use. LOL!

By gdx

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02-12-2022, 01:15

NYYRIKKI wrote:

I remember doing it once or twice and back then at least I think it first asked if I want to create FAT16 partitions and then selected the actual program. I remember that in the end the job was done, but it was more than horrible user experience that made you more sure that you destroy everything instead of giving idea of what you are actually doing when you are inserting these numbers.

Maybe the interface driver you are using is poorly designed. I've had almost never a problem with the Sunrise CF.

As for the Beer, let's say it's something unfinished.

By NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (6010)

NYYRIKKI's picture

02-12-2022, 01:45

gdx wrote:
NYYRIKKI wrote:

I remember doing it once or twice and back then at least I think it first asked if I want to create FAT16 partitions and then selected the actual program. I remember that in the end the job was done, but it was more than horrible user experience that made you more sure that you destroy everything instead of giving idea of what you are actually doing when you are inserting these numbers.

Maybe the interface driver you are using is poorly designed. I've had almost never a problem with the Sunrise CF.

I would not call it a problem, but It was just not user friendly and I remember using hex numbers... I'm anyway one of those guys who tend to ask why IPv4 mask can't be selected by using left/right?

gdx wrote:

As for the Beer, let's say it's something unfinished.

Yes it is... but the thing is that from hardware point of view ie. HBI-55 (4k memory expansion) is just as much IDE interface than Beer IDE is.

By gdx

Enlighted (5992)

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02-12-2022, 01:58

I no longer create multiple partition since i use FAT16. That's probably why I don't have any problems.

NYYRIKKI wrote:

from hardware point of view ie. HBI-55 (4k memory expansion) is just as much IDE interface than Beer IDE is.

There is undoubtedly the same problem with the I/O ports. The HBI-55 documentation also says that the ports should not be reversed.

By NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (6010)

NYYRIKKI's picture

02-12-2022, 02:16

Prodatron wrote:

What I don't understand is, why every MSX mass storage hardware needs its own partitioning tool, as they all support the MBR and 1-4 primary partitions, so it should be all the same?

Well, that is related to MSX history... IIRC in 90's there was a big debate of how to handle >16bit sector numbers in "standard way". It anyway ended more to competition than to solution. In the end there was no winners, and so same "no winners" tactics were selected as with disks. After that there was no standard solution until Nextor.

edoz wrote:

It is a really cool idea to have a good partition tool for SymbOS. Then you have just one tool to use on all your supported storage devices. I wonder if we make a GUI version of it will be the first graphical partition manager for an 8-bit system Wink

Well, yes it is! With single partitioning tool you can handle this problem for multiple platforms!

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