There is NO REVIVAL !!!

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By MäSäXi

Paragon (1884)

MäSäXi's picture

23-07-2004, 10:53

just had to comment all this revival shouting...

HOW CAN YOU CALL ALL THIS FARCE AS REVIVAL !!!???

If there is no support at all for THE ORIGINAL MACHINE, MSX-1 then there is no revival at all....

MSX-1 was the thing which started it all... Revival means that lot of people are supporting and wanting to see something old fashion thingy, but how many MSX-1 revival games you have seen in last years, if Msx-dev´03 and Msx-dev´04 does not count...

Do you understand what I am saying to you?!?!?!?!

It can´t be revival if you must PAY for people that they BOTHER to do something old!!!! What I mean for paying is that there must be PRIZES in MSX-dev competitions to make people programming games.... Don´t get me wrong... of course someone must pay to programmer, if someone makes game for commercial software house, like in the 1980´s.

But what I mean is this :

I think that loving for the machine must come from INSIDE OF YOU!!!

FROM YOUR HEAD!!!

FROM YOUR HEART !!!!!!!!!!

NO ONE CAN BUY LOVE !!!

Of course you can pay to someone to make her/his love you/something, but as you all (hopefully) know, it is NOT REAL love!!!!

To make my point more clear I can try to explain whole thing with other words:

As a true lover of 1950´s Rock ´n´ Roll, I know there is similarities between death of Rock&Roll and death of MSX. Let me explain...

At the end of the 1950´s and beginning of the 1960´s, market forces killed Rock&Roll, putting their soft and nice singers on charts singing soft pop ballads...

At the beginning of the 1990´s MSX was killed by market forces too....

In the sixties, if you weren´t for latest soft pop hits, like everyone else was, you were looked as an oddball... If you wanted to hear REAL rock, you couldn´t hear it from radio no more... everything was mainstream soft pop... There was only few people who wanted to play 50´s Rock&Roll by themselves... So they played to themselves and to their buddies, and rarely on some clubs. People started to find these bands and dig a lot!

Compare this to beginning of the nineties, when msx was killed, and only amateur programmers wanted to continue this all....

Then, at the end of the 60´s, Revival boom started... old 1950´s stars were wanted to perform on stages once again... people went crazy about this all, and bought rock&roll revival records, clothes, etc... many soft pop bands pretended to be as rock&roll bands and recorded old hits... but soon it all disappeared again.... people who were not in it FROM THEIR HEART stopped acting like they could like it...

in the beginning of the 70´s Of course there was some european bands, like Crazy Cavan & Rhythm Rockers who still played real rock&roll, because they loved it from their heart!! (And they still are doing the same!)

It was europeans that started the whole Rock ´n´ Roll once again... not americans... nowadays there are unbelievable amount of Rock & Roll bands playing 1950´s, Neobilly and psychobilly... and there are lots of bands who still enjoy playing in original 1950´s style!!!!! They love their ROOTS!!!

I guess, that my story was not as good as I meant it to be...

ok, let´s say it on the MSX-style... everyone is about msx-2 or higher this and msx-2 or higher that.... but where is the thing that started it all...?

WHERE ARE MSX PEOPLE WHO LOVE THEIR R - O - O - T - S ?!?!?!

MSX - 1 SYSTEM IS MSX MACHINE, DON´T YOU DARE TO FORGET THAT !!!

AS I SAID, IT IS NOT REAL REVIVAL IF THE ORIGINAL MACHINE IS NOT SUPPORTED TOO LIKE THE MSX-2, MSX-2+ AND TURBO R ARE SUPPORTED!!!

IT´S JUST A FAKE THING!!!

And, if you want revival here, why on earth you must wait for that japanese would be so kind and send some little presents for you...??? For dog´s sake, make your own revival!!!! it´s the same thing if you do it here!!!

And guess what?? If you all start to support MSX-1 too, I guess we can do it even better than in Japan!

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By Latok

msx guru (3866)

Latok's picture

23-07-2004, 11:08

MSX is ROCK'N'ROLL!!! That's what I like! Smile

By Thom

Paladin (687)

Thom's picture

23-07-2004, 11:18

A revival doesn't necessarily mean one should stick to nostaligia for the sake of it, nor does it rule out progress.

By Henk

Expert (107)

Henk's picture

23-07-2004, 11:23

MäSäXi,

I think you are somewhat wrong.
People like the MSX system, not just a MSX1 or MSX2.
MSX is a way a computer can be build, just like a PC or Mac is build in a way.
And it is this SYSTEM what the people mean by "REVIVAL".

Also computers is somewhat hard to compare with music. Music is timeless. But with computers, like the MSX, things go forward. Like the cassette into disks.

So in order to revive the MSX, a new MSX has to be developed that can do the same things as the PC's now. But the new MSX will do it with the MSX system and not the PC system.

MSX 1 must not be forgotten, but cannot be the focus if we want the MSX to revive. It is just too absolete. Nobody is going to buy a new MSX 1.

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (9950)

wolf_'s picture

23-07-2004, 11:29

At least here in NL, the typical MSX is an MSX2 with 128kb mem and including all or most soundchip extensions. The memory raised a bit I think, we can for sure do 256k software, and the Opl4 might replace some older soundchips as you can do all FM-Pac, MSX-Audio, and many SCC sounds with the OPL4. But I don't think ppl targeting at modern hardware (opl4, gfx9k) will be bothered to do MSX1 software. ANMA did so in the ninetees, and got some critics (from sceners) about not doing MSX2 games (while their MSX2 techniques were brilliant).

It's all a bit of a regional revival. In a region with many MSX1 computers you'll expect MSX1 activity. In a region with MSX2 computers or higher, with CF interfaces, Opl4, GFX9k, tons of mem etc., you'll get a 'high-tech' revival.. nothing illogical about that.

By Niles

Hero (545)

Niles's picture

23-07-2004, 11:29

Yes, I am thinking in all those people who doesn't know MSX before, and a new "MSX-thing" is much better than a emulator for PC anyway

To be honest, I think none of us NEVER will recover the "old feeling", because MSX machines were uniques in their time (80's and early 90's), and now is totally different...

By The_Engineer

Master (178)

The_Engineer's picture

23-07-2004, 11:52

Personal opinion: MSX == MSX2.

The MSX1 is a copy of the ColecoVision console with a BASIC interpreter added. All MSX1 chips are standard off-the-shelf components, no proprietary hardware was designed for this system.

For the MSX2, both the VDP and the MSX Audio are designed for the system. Futhermore, the system architecture is more versatile thanks to the optional inclusion of the memory mapper.

Nishi stated in his speech in Tilburg that MSX2 actually should have been the MSX system, but because Yamaha could not deliver the V9938 in time, the MSX1 system was rushed to market.

But, if you want to revive MSX1, be my guest. MSX2 is cooler Tongue

By NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (5917)

NYYRIKKI's picture

23-07-2004, 12:06

I'm not sure, I understand, what you talk about by saying "AS I SAID, IT IS NOT REAL REVIVAL IF THE ORIGINAL MACHINE IS NOT SUPPORTED TOO LIKE THE MSX-2, MSX-2+ AND TURBO R ARE SUPPORTED!!!" MSX machines are MSX compatible, so there is no need for MSX1 specific support.

If you mean software, good software is good software no matter was it made for MSX1 or MSX2. I think, best solution is to make software, that can support also better hardware. I mean MSX1 games, that can use MSX2 pallette, if that is available or Space Manbow type of support for MSX2+

I anyway think, that each of us will make software for machine we like best. Someone likes MSX1 more and someone else MSX2 or MSX tR. I personally think, that these steps taken after MSX1 have been good, so I don't see a reason, why should I forget them. Best thing to do is to fit your system requirements to your software requirements and maybe support something more.

The revival thing is ment for PC users, not for MSX users. At least until now there has been only PC software & hardware and I'm a bit sceptical it will ever be more. Hobbyist will still continue, but I don't see that as revival.

By Pvdven

Supporter (6)

Pvdven's picture

23-07-2004, 12:18

Ouch ! Sounds all very painfull. But it is a fair opinion of course. No need for all the CAPS I would say.

Anyway, I'd like to add in 'defense' that maybe revival is not quite right or true, in fact I would say MSX never died so it's been alive all along so no need for revival. Interest is on the rise again I suppose. If you want to call that revival no problem for me, sounds better Smile

By BiFi

Enlighted (4348)

BiFi's picture

23-07-2004, 12:19

Every time some piece of hard- or software is released for the MSX, it adds up to the revival. Using those new releases adds up to the revival. Discussing matters about any MSX aspect, where-ever on the internet adds up to the revival. Meetings and fairs all add up to the revival. The increasing number of MSX users the last years all add up to the revival. Former MSX software companies rereleasing MSX products adds up to the revival.

I for one am entering the MRC development challenges to keep up the MSX spirit, not for any of the prizes. Even though it might be nice to win something, it's not my goal when I enter. If I had more spare time I'd probably have entered both MSXdev'03 and MSXdev'04, which both are MSX1 competitions, as well, just for fun.

MSX will always be my roots when it comes to computers, and this includes the MSX1 system. Not developing for MSX1 (anymore) doesn't mean one will ever forget the machine they started with.

By snout

Ascended (15184)

snout's picture

23-07-2004, 12:20

It all depends on what you think the 'revival' is. The 'Japanese MSX Revival' is just a name for the regain of commercial interest in MSX. On the MRC, 90% of the time we mention 'MSX Revival' we are talking about this situation.

Another thing that is happening throughout the past years is that people who used to have MSX computers regain their interest in the machine and start using it or start developing for it again. This, indeed, is a revival of its own and one I hope the MRC is contributing to as well. I have the feeling you are talking about this revival.

I don't see why this can't be called a 'real' revival when people are supporting the MSX2, 2+ and turboR, but not (or to a lesser extent) the MSX1. It makes no sense. It's like saying 'You can't call yourself a car-driver when you never have driven a carriage'. Sure, the roots of the MSX standard are the MSX1, but many people started using the MSX when the MSX2 arrived. So, they should be forced to develop software for MSX1 just because 'it's there'? Hmmm, I tend to disagree Wink Besides, have a look in our news archive. You'd be amazed by the amount of new MSX1 software that has been developed recently.

As for the MSXDev competition (and the MRC Challenges for that matter) offering prizes to motivate people to continue developing for MSX (or to start developing for MSX again): do you really think they would not be competing if we would not offer any prizes? If they did not love the machine in the first place, they never would be around on the internet browsing for MSX anyway. The prizes are just a small added bonus, an element of 'entertainment'. Nothing more, nothing less.

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