Tatung Einstein 256

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Van MäSäXi

Paragon (1884)

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21-11-2012, 09:21

Quote:

I mean that it's a failure in itself if *no* software was released that uses the V9938... whilst being one of the major features of the computer!

Manuel, I understood that. Smile Metalion, I meant, that many parents were the ones who decided about the MONEY. Smile Children probably knew more about the computers, but parents knew more about how hard it is to earn money. That´s why they "helped" their children to decide which computer to choose, as parents were the ones who said the last word about price range. I think 128K MSX2 would have been more expensive than C64. Sure, 64Kb MSX2 would have been cheaper than 128K model, but everything I read about MSX2 in the eighties, it was always said it has 128K, I never could imagine that sequel to 64K MSX(1) still could have only 64K memory, as Sinclair and Commodore had made their 128K machines. Maybe 64K was ok in Japan, but in Europe companies had to make and sell new 128K models.

I have always imagined positive thoughts about how MSX2 could have been if it only had been available. Sure it is easy to only think about good things about the computer you love, but we cannot say if it could have been somewhat successful micro or total failure in most countries. MSX(1) was successful in few countries, but not everywhere, that´s why it is a bit hard to imagine how it´s sequel could have good sales at all (except in japan and the netherlands). Think about other nice micros, which didn´t got a good start. Later they got their 128K models too, but as first model(s) did not sell too well, there aren´t too big userbase to buy 128K models by themselves or to convince other people to buy it. But of course everybody is still free to continue imagining "what if MSX2 could have been a commercial success...!". Smile I will gladly imagine sometimes, if MSX(1) games had been better back in time. Smile

Van PingPong

Prophet (3898)

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21-11-2012, 21:08

MäSäXi wrote:

But of course everybody is still free to continue imagining "what if MSX2 could have been a commercial success...!". Smile I will gladly imagine sometimes, if MSX(1) games had been better back in time. Smile

MSX2 could have been a great success only if MSX1 could have been a success.
The reality is that, for various reasons, MSX1 was not so successfull. The compatibility is the main reason of MSX2 partial fail. Software houses always targeted MSX1 sw because of larger audience. The result was low-spec-games. And a low spec game does not contribute to the popolarity of a system.

Van hit9918

Prophet (2923)

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21-11-2012, 21:24

"I never could imagine that sequel to 64K MSX(1) still could have only 64K memory"

But what would you say when you see in the shop a dirt cheap 64k MSX2 running badass games? Big smile

But when said games doesnt exist, you go for numbers. Then it is up to marketing to add the 128k vram and say that it is a 192k machine. 192k WOHOO! Big smile
It looks like the issue you mention is really about marketing numbers:

Commodore 128: There are NO C128 games! The C128 is the worst 128k fail ever with practically zero extra capabilities. Why doesn't one hear about this? The users were happy with the endless C64 games.

Spectrum 128: It got an unchanged graphics chip, but with the 128k you now can afford lots of storing graphics 8 times rotated for fast scroll and software sprites. But on spectrum "128k" means something else: it means it got sound, before you had NO SOUND.

So those kilobyte numbers dont tell much about what is actually up with the machine. So then it is no exaggeration to label the MSX2 with 64k RAM + 128k vram as "192k", what do you think?

Van Manuel

Ascended (18855)

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21-11-2012, 21:48

FYI: MSX2 was more successful than MSX1 in the Netherlands. (Figures from Wammes Witkop.)

Van mars2000you

Enlighted (6259)

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21-11-2012, 22:15

The Tatung Einstein 256 has really 192 Kb VRAM - see the manual, page 356 about the VDP :

"The maximum addressable memory (192 kilo-bytes - I015, I016, I017, I018, I019, I020) is fitted as standard to allow all possible modes to be exploited."

For the modes other than text mode 1, see page 201

http://www.tatungeinstein.co.uk/front/mans.htm

Van Manuel

Ascended (18855)

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21-11-2012, 22:15

mars2000you: is the Tatung something that is interesting for blueMSX to emulate, being so close to MSX?

Van mars2000you

Enlighted (6259)

afbeelding van mars2000you

21-11-2012, 22:25

It could be interesting, also because using MESS is not so easy for end-users.

But that's a question of time, we need to make choices and there are other systems close to MSX :

Sord M5 (Z80, TMS992x, SN76489)
Memotech MTX 500/512 (Z80, TMS992x, SN76489)

We have enough work with Coleco and Sega, besides MSX and SVI, as ColecoAdam and SMS are still on our todo list.

Van hit9918

Prophet (2923)

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21-11-2012, 23:02

@Manuel, oh I did not know, surprise.

It would be interesting to see some machine prices and date. With these issues, one always got to take care about timeframe. I feel when MSX2 is out in 1986, RAM price is quite different than two or three years later when the megabyte atari ST fashion pops up. The time MSX2 is out I just get my MSX1.

And I remember this dream photo where is the known fat expensive Sony 700 and then there is that secret Hit Bit console without disk drive that is not available here. And I dreamt about THAT. The reason must have been price.
That is why I am talking "the low end machines are missing".

Van mars2000you

Enlighted (6259)

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21-11-2012, 23:28

http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/det/10531/Tatung-Einstein...

"The Tatung Einstein was released in 1984 costing about £500.

It uses a 3" disk drive (the same used by Sinclair and Amstrad) but I have read somewhere that with a bit of 'handy andying' you can fit a standard 720k 3.5" floppy drive quite easily."

So, more than 1 year before MSX2 ! You'll notice that the original drive is close to the CPC system.

Van hit9918

Prophet (2923)

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21-11-2012, 23:39

I read the Tatung price too and wonder how much is a pound Smile

Edit: Seems 1 pound is 1.25 euro, so the machine is 625 euro.
But I dont know about effects of currencies drifting.
My hit bit 75 + floppy was 500 euro.

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