TriloTracker beta thread.

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Van hit9918

Prophet (2925)

afbeelding van hit9918

14-03-2014, 00:31

The additional wave doesn't need to be the square wave, take the softest one you can get out of the SCC.
In some of trilotracker example tunes I saw some that look like in between sine and square wave.
Are those the softest on real SCC?

Van Huey

Prophet (2687)

afbeelding van Huey

14-03-2014, 08:56

I really have no idea what you are talking about. I see nothing new in your example. Combining 'instruments' is a common practice since the first trackers.

I first thought you wanted effects like
this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuKbSP7akiE
or this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73VLMNMaRAQ

Van hit9918

Prophet (2925)

afbeelding van hit9918

14-03-2014, 16:35

"Combining 'instruments' is a common practice since the first trackers."

What I am talking about is that it is NOT done.
"the first trackers", that is Amiga. I am talking about what is not done on the MSX.

Maybe instead talking frequencies, I should give a picture of the thing

C-2  C-3
C-2  C-3
D-2  D-3
D-2  D-3
F-2  F-3
F-2  F-3
C-2  C-3
D-2  D-3
F-2  F-3
C-2  C-3
D-2  D-3
F-2  F-3

well that was AY style, the SCC example is rather

C-2  C-2
C-2  C-2
D-2  D-2
D-2  D-2
F-2  F-2
F-2  F-2
C-2  C-2
D-2  D-2
F-2  F-2
C-2  C-2
D-2  D-2
F-2  F-2

with the right column in different wave

On the SID combining square with triangle is done all day.
Maybe because it has that nice mode register where one can turn on both simultaneously.

So then in SID tracker it looks like this

C-2
C-2
D-2
D-2
F-2
F-2
C-2
D-2
F-2
C-2
D-2
F-2

and what practicaly comes out is this

C-2  C-2
C-2  C-2
D-2  D-2
D-2  D-2
F-2  F-2
F-2  F-2
C-2  C-2
D-2  D-2
F-2  F-2
C-2  C-2
D-2  D-2
F-2  F-2

with the right column in different wave.

Is it "chord", nope.

The example you gave is like hitting the nail,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuKbSP7akiE
like at the beginning and at the end a few seconds where you say "common practice",
and all the rest of the song where I say "it is not done".

Van Huey

Prophet (2687)

afbeelding van Huey

14-03-2014, 16:44

2 channels playing the same notes, and/or at a difference octave and/or slight detune, really is comon practice (at least on MSX).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbpfomp595c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGIgWSCvDVg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSYJGKDyZmg

Van Grauw

Ascended (10623)

afbeelding van Grauw

14-03-2014, 17:25

Playing two notes with a slight detune or different waveform, I wouldn’t call it “special effects” or “chip hack”; on synthesizers it is a very common thing to do to get a fatter sound or a bit of a phase effect.

This contrary to the “ghost channel” technique Huey linked to (it all makes complete sense but I never thought of it! Smile), or using PSG envelopes to get a saw or triangle wave, that definitely falls much more into the chip hack category.

But, semantics schemantics Smile.

Btw, in most if not all MSX trackers there’s a 1:1 relationship between tracker channel and sound chip channel. So unlike SID tracker that you mentioned, if you want to layer multiple channels, you’ll have to do so manually by copying the note data into multiple columns.

Van hit9918

Prophet (2925)

afbeelding van hit9918

14-03-2014, 17:32

@Huey
Ok I need to tell more drastic.
In your example hitting the nail,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuKbSP7akiE
in the first few seconds the secret banned eguitar is howlwing up :D
it sounds like it is no worse than AMIGA SAMPLE of roots/sanity.

So, because MSX has amiga guitar, please give an example like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGo8MTgs-2I
on MSX chips.
Is now more clear what I mean? :D

Van JohnHassink

Ambassador (5607)

afbeelding van JohnHassink

14-03-2014, 17:39

@ hit9918
I think the effect you're talking about is not created by doubling channels, but by the "Duty Cycle" command, in this case used in SCC channels #2 and #4.
http://trilobyte-msx.com/TriloTracker/index.php/Effects#Bxy_...

Van hit9918

Prophet (2925)

afbeelding van hit9918

14-03-2014, 17:41

@grauw, yes, in the end there is no big deal to it.
But the issue is, when I talk of one instrument made of two columns.
But then get shown examples that again got tendency to "chord" style, it gets a big deal to explain what I mean.

Van JohnHassink

Ambassador (5607)

afbeelding van JohnHassink

14-03-2014, 17:44

The 'twin channels' in the Contra music video is actually an SCC bassline backed by the PSG. It's a technique abundantly used by Konami to enhance the bass sound.

Van Grauw

Ascended (10623)

afbeelding van Grauw

14-03-2014, 17:45

hit9918 wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuKbSP7akiE
in the first few seconds the secret banned eguitar is howlwing up :D
it sounds like it is no worse than AMIGA SAMPLE of roots/sanity.

I think first and foremost, the goal of composing music is to make it sound good, not to demonstrate intricate sound effects :). The Amiga version has a bit of a smooth hollow sound to it, whereas the SCC version sounds rather sharp and nasty… So I can imagine that particular effect is less interesting to use for large sections of music.

Anyway, what’s the objective of this discussion? Because although I think it’s nice to look at different techniques employed by various composers, it’s somewhat interwoven with what seems to be argueing about words, in stead of looking at the music people have made with appreciation :).

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