MSXdev22 #08 Randoom

Rookie (31)

03-04-2022, 21:08

Kudos for you Robosoft!
great version and game!
we played a C64 version in the last joint meeting in Barcelona (C64+ MSX) and it is a very addictive game

music is superb... it really reminds me about games like Rez from playstation where your gameplay is synched with music...
it would be a great experience if you could keep improving the game with such concept: music that reacts to your gameplay and as a ultimate wish... tile explosion effects like in go go dynamite
ok ok enough

Thanks for this version... I'll keep a smile in my face and n¡musinc in my brain for some hours now

Van tfh

Prophet (3203)

03-04-2022, 22:25

I'm really becoming a fan of Robosoft's entries for the MSXDev compo. At first they seem a bit simple, but everything plays so smooth and well.
Thanks for another great entry!

Van santiontanon

Paragon (1639)

04-04-2022, 03:14

Oh wow, I agree!! Incredibly smooth! Very nice title effect in the main menu, and great musics. What sound chip is it using for the musics btw?

Van ToriHino

Paladin (774)

04-04-2022, 07:09

santiontanon wrote:

What sound chip is it using for the musics btw?

The standard PSG is used.

Van dan

Master (225)

04-04-2022, 10:19

tfh wrote:

I'm really becoming a fan of Robosoft's entries for the MSXDev compo

me too! thanks!

Van gdx

Enlighted (5585)

04-04-2022, 11:45

Fun game and properly realized. Thanks!

Van jltursan

Prophet (2619)

04-04-2022, 15:31

Seems easy; but it's really tricky!. Thumbs up!

Van Robosoft

Expert (103)

04-04-2022, 23:39

Thanx Torihino for another nice game!

Van janghang

Expert (124)

05-04-2022, 08:39

Its sound is very impressive. Is it supporting SCC or FM? It doesn't sound like pure PSG.

Van ewsnatcher

Rookie (18)

05-04-2022, 09:32

Very nice game. I managed to play through to stage 22, but there it ends.
The last enemy (color) can't be put to jail, because it is not spawned at level start.

Van wolf_

Ambassador_ (9971)

05-04-2022, 10:06

janghang wrote:

Its sound is very impressive. Is it supporting SCC or FM? It doesn't sound like pure PSG.

See MSX BASIC, the M and S commands in the PLAY command. That's what give you those other sounds. Also lots of quick arpeggios.

Van tonigalvez

Champion (310)

05-04-2022, 12:22

Hello everyone, I am part of the original development team that make Randoom for C64.

This MSX version was done without permission, the coder did not asked us to make the MSX version.

Dozznar know nothing and he is wondering why the guy did this MSX version without asking.

Van mzoran

Master (141)

06-04-2022, 10:19

tonigalvez wrote:

Hello everyone, I am part of the original development team that make Randoom for C64.

This MSX version was done without permission, the coder did not asked us to make the MSX version.

Dozznar know nothing and he is wondering why the guy did this MSX version without asking.

Well the original author wishes should be respected.
Will there be some agreement or are you requesting this game to be disqualified?

Van tonigalvez

Champion (310)

06-04-2022, 14:03

The owner of the rights is Dozznar, he will do it.

Van gdx

Enlighted (5585)

06-04-2022, 14:09

Tonigalvez, you've never done the same? Don't say no.

Van Briqunullus

Hero (527)

06-04-2022, 15:42

Torihino, I can understand you've done the conversion because you really like the game. But you can't do it like this. Getting inspiration is fine, playing copycat is not. Please settle the situation with Dozznar. We don't want to be taken back to the Commodore-MSX wars in the eighties.

Quote:

Games are original. They have never been published before on MSX, and are not copyrighted by anyone else than the creator. Clones and remakes of existing games are accepted.

Maybe the rules are contradicting themselves. Games cannot be copyrighted AND remakes are accepted at the same time?

Van Timmy

Master (191)

06-04-2022, 17:32

Briqunullus wrote:

Maybe the rules are contradicting themselves. Games cannot be copyrighted AND remakes are accepted at the same time?

Well, the rule was mainly used to do remakes/ports from your own games, like me porting my own games to the MSX, or porting really old games. It wasn't meant to port new games from other active forum members. If I remember correctly there used to be a "if you're unsure, ask the organisers" line for this specific rule too.

I don't mind the current rules, as long as we can decide that it's against the spirit of MSXDev, even after submission.

Van Grauw

Ascended (10604)

07-04-2022, 00:32

Not taking sides here, but can’t all options to solve this in private be exhausted before taking it public?

Van ToriHino

Paladin (774)

07-04-2022, 07:50

tonigalvez wrote:

Hello everyone, I am part of the original development team that make Randoom for C64.

This MSX version was done without permission, the coder did not asked us to make the MSX version.

Dozznar know nothing and he is wondering why the guy did this MSX version without asking.

I don't know why Toni suddenly started the public discussion again here, we were already in contact. In fact he even offered to convert the title screen from the original to this version as well. I'm already in contact with Dozznar to sort things out, the result will follow. After that I will drop development activities for new games for an uknown period (also including the improvements on RoboPlay and RoboSID), the fun is out of it for now.

Van ro

Scribe (4708)

07-04-2022, 08:19

Thank you for clearing that up, ToriHino. Great to hear both parties are in contact and great to hear collaboration going on. The MSXdev team is proud to have you on board, now and in the future.

Van jepmsx

Master (156)

07-04-2022, 09:12

This is sad news. I really enjoyed your games and roboplay has been a good source of information to help me understand the moonblaster file. I really hope that you find again your fun with MSX. I look forward to it.
PS: I don't really understand this mess. Is there any profit in the game? Hasn't the game been built from scratch? Isn't this like when you play a famous song with your voice and guitar? Well, maybe my knowledge in copyright is not good enough.

Van tonigalvez

Champion (310)

07-04-2022, 13:49

"I don't know why Toni suddenly started the public discussion again here, we were already in contact. In fact he even offered to convert the title screen from the original to this version as well. I'm already in contact with Dozznar to sort things out, the result will follow. After that I will drop development activities for new games for an uknown period (also including the improvements on RoboPlay and RoboSID), the fun is out of it for now."

I did not started again, this was in the beginning, but when I offered my help to add my picture to your project I was convinced that you already talked with Dozznar and you got the agreement to make the game.

I am not really mad at you, so, do not think that I am in a battle against you or something like that, I simply let Dozznar manage this situation.

I like your games and I think, if you stop making games, maybe you will make a mistake, you got to do wherever you like meanwhile you do not mess with somebody.

Please, be happy and keep doing good games.

Sorry for disturb you.

Van tonigalvez

Champion (310)

07-04-2022, 13:47

Yes, we did it with Konami games for Amiga, but Konami did not came after us (we where lucky) but they could.

Van Timmy

Master (191)

07-04-2022, 15:22

Timmy wrote:

Briqunullus wrote:

Maybe the rules are contradicting themselves. Games cannot be copyrighted AND remakes are accepted at the same time?

Well, the rule was mainly used to do remakes/ports from your own games, like me porting my own games to the MSX, or porting really old games. It wasn't meant to port new games from other active forum members. If I remember correctly there used to be a "if you're unsure, ask the organisers" line for this specific rule too.

I don't mind the current rules, as long as we can decide that it's against the spirit of MSXDev, even after submission.

I feel like I should revise my opinion on this rule here. In the end, we are trying to get many games made for the MSX, but not in a way that creators need to guess how the rules should be adhere to. I feel like we should make the rules better so that we don't create a situation like this in the future. For example, in this case, an extra line like, "ask the organisers if you are unsure whether your game is fine within this rule" would be easier for everyone.

My guess is that the rule change was designed to make it easier for the organisers to deal with less correspondences between them and the participants, and if they feel they don't like this burden, it could perhaps be changed it into "ask msx.org forums if you are unsure whether your game is fine within this rule". This also implies that I hope that the forums can give a good answer to the question: "Is it okay for me to submit a game released a few months ago on the C64, by active members of this forum, using the same name as the original?"

For example, remember last year's incident where someone from the SMS forums were converting the MSXDev entries, and how that ended. I feel that the participants deserve better rules and clarifications; it shouldn't be a burden for participants to interpret the rules.

Van Uninteresting

Champion (289)

07-04-2022, 17:19

@jepmsx I tried the game on tfh's site and watched the C64 gameplay on Youtube. At least the first stage appeared to be the same, so in that sense it is the same game (beside sharing the name).

As for the second part of your post... I used to write fanfiction and create mods, and in both cases people have asked me if it was OK to translate them to their language. I know I'd be unhappy if my stories or mods were posted on sites I didn't upload them on myself (as is the case with one Android game w/o monetization I made years ago and uploaded it to only Google Play).

As for covers, apparently here arranging a song or translating its lyrics would require the composer's or lyricist's permission (not sure if this applies to live performances, recordings or whatever). But it might be different elsewhere.

I'd say it's more polite to ask for permission than forgiveness. And in unfortunate cases as I understand to have happened here, miscommunication can still happen and cause trouble.

Van tfh

Prophet (3203)

07-04-2022, 19:31

ToriHino wrote:

... After that I will drop development activities for new games for an uknown period (also including the improvements on RoboPlay and RoboSID), the fun is out of it for now.

I hope this period will not be to long though. You've given the MSX community a few excellent games with an original & smooth gameplay. I hope you will find your fun back soon.

Van gdx

Enlighted (5585)

08-04-2022, 02:16

tonigalvez wrote:

Yes, we did it with Konami games for Amiga, but Konami did not came after us (we where lucky) but they could.

And you don't see the ridiculousness of your complaint? Almost all retro games are highly inspired from other games without asking anyone's permission. And you earn money this way. If your goal is to break our pleasure, you have succeeded.

Van santiontanon

Paragon (1639)

08-04-2022, 14:33

I hope you all resolve it peacefully. Always remember that this is a hobby and we do this for fun. We all have day jobs already that give us enough drama. Please assume that the other party did what they did without any bad intention. A couple of emails are usually enough to resolve things

Van ToriHino

Paladin (774)

08-04-2022, 16:50

santiontanon wrote:

I hope you all resolve it peacefully. Always remember that this is a hobby and we do this for fun. We all have day jobs already that give us enough drama. Please assume that the other party did what they did without any bad intention. A couple of emails are usually enough to resolve things

Indeed, some good communication helped. Things are already cleared up and I hope to release soon an updated version including a fix for the mentioned bug in level 22.

Van ToriHino

Paladin (774)

08-04-2022, 20:21

I just submitted a small modified version of the game, which also fixes the level 22 bug.

Quote from Dozznar (the author of the original):

Quote:

For now everything is fine. There is no problem on our part in the publication and participation of the game.

So all resolved