Why and how was MSX-AUDIO failed?

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By syn

Prophet (2106)

Аватар пользователя syn

17-02-2013, 14:54

@wolf: The limited amount of instruments of the msx-music did not bothered me much. But it always left me wondering "what if?". Yes Microcabin's music is exceptional, up to a point where they were actually an exception: as in that they are /were clearly levels ahead of what other companies at that time produced, music-wise. For example, as brilliant as that dragon slayer tune is (one that I personally like a lot), you can still recognize the msx-music hardware instruments. What if, msx-audio was a widely accepted standard, what if all msx2/2+/tr that came with internal msx-music had msx-audio instead. My point was: we will never know what music Microcabin COULD have made with msx-audio. Would it be better than msx-music? Worse? the same? (That volume problem you mentioned, I assume, would not have been a problem in this what-if situation ofcourse )

I didnt mean I hate msx-music or its limitations with regards to the hardware instruments. On the contrary, in my mind when I think of msx-music I think of that harpsicord, that vibraphone, that flute. Hardware voices that are so recognizable, almost defining the japanse msx sound of that era. A sound that I, and I think most of you grew up with and have grown to love Wink

By meits

Scribe (6527)

Аватар пользователя meits

17-02-2013, 15:34

The mix of audio and psg is not an issue indeed... two seperate musicchips always differ... MSX Music and PSG as well. On some computers even to horrible proportions... Take the mix of the majority of the MSX computers and lower the volume of the psg while making music on it. No worries there.
Only advantages of the MSX Music are the price and the warmth of the sound.

By yzi

Champion (444)

Аватар пользователя yzi

17-02-2013, 16:13

My point was, not being able to tweak the sounds is a serious limitation. On the Atari ST they are able to get interesting sounds from even the crappy PSG. And by tweaking I mean modulating parameters on the fly, not just setting up a sound and note-on, note-off.

By hit9918

Prophet (2926)

Аватар пользователя hit9918

17-02-2013, 17:05

I am not sure whether I am telling old news.
But I wanted to present the best OPL of all time: the YM2151.
The oppinion actually based on just one incident... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2gNq11ept4
Hehe.

By hit9918

Prophet (2926)

Аватар пользователя hit9918

17-02-2013, 17:27

The question is, how much of it is OPL-R-Type, and how much of it is sick musician? Smile
Maybe OPL-R-Type too asks for overlaying multiple channels?
Below a BASIC demo that does overlay square + triangle.
It sounds like the first 3 seconds of SID Turrican intro.

10 sound 13,14 : sound 8,16
20 sound 9,10 
30 sound 0,0 : sound 1,0
40 B = 68
50 a = int(b)*32+8
60 sound 11,b mod 256
70 sound 12,b/256
80 sound 2,a mod 256
90 sound 3,a/256
100 b = b / 1.01
120 if b > 50 then 50
140 for i = 1 to 1000 : next
150 for i = 10 to 0 step - 0.1
160 sound 9,i
170 if (i < 8) then sound 8,0
180 next

Mhm, at the end it sounds like the triangle wave got ADSR!
Without any tracker feature, the PSG is envelope ping on one channel, no ADSR, and "wave" is a word that never has been heard of.
Can OPLL maybe be hacked to pretend to be a bit YM2151? Big smile

By Manuel

Ascended (19057)

Аватар пользователя Manuel

17-02-2013, 20:21

hit9918 wrote:

I am not sure whether I am telling old news.
But I wanted to present the best OPL of all time: the YM2151.
The oppinion actually based on just one incident... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2gNq11ept4
Hehe.

That thing is called the OPM and it's available for MSX in the Yamaha SFG-01 and SFG-05 cartridges... And it's completely underused for games (none!).

By popolon33

Expert (85)

Аватар пользователя popolon33

17-02-2013, 21:22

Manuel wrote:

That thing is called the OPM and it's available for MSX in the Yamaha SFG-01 and SFG-05 cartridges... And it's completely underused for games (none!).

and it's a pity because OPM was the best chip for MSX at that time. Sharp users know that...
but thanks to mxdrv, we can listen thousands of MDX with our SFG01/05 Smile

By NYYRIKKI

Enlighted (5970)

Аватар пользователя NYYRIKKI

17-02-2013, 21:11

yzi wrote:

My point was, not being able to tweak the sounds is a serious limitation. On the Atari ST they are able to get interesting sounds from even the crappy PSG. And by tweaking I mean modulating parameters on the fly, not just setting up a sound and note-on, note-off.

Yes, you can tweak the sounds also on OPLL... When you change instrument while KEY ON you get quite interesting results. Most hardware voice combinations don't give any extra, but with some combinations you get even quite a nice noisy sounds that you can use to implement ie. better cymbal / hihat type of sounds. Too bad the emulators are not very accurate with these sounds... By tweaking software sound you have quite unlimited possibilities... at least for that one voice.

If you meant that the music tools available don't support this well, then you are right... That is a bit shame...

By wolf_

Ambassador_ (10032)

Аватар пользователя wolf_

17-02-2013, 21:19

Oracle does that, halfway the 90's I suggested it to ro already.

By MTC

Rookie (26)

Аватар пользователя MTC

20-02-2013, 23:11

For its time the Y8950 had very, very good specs (for home computer standards), but was expensive to produce. To use its full potential you had to add extra RAM/ROM which also added up to the price a lot. Keep in mind that 256 kilobytes of RAM sold for around $300 those days. If they really made MSX-Audio standard back then, MSX would have died even sooner because of the price.

Even though the MSX-Music is more limited, let's look at the PC back then with its Adlib and Soundblaster (OPL) cards. Those cards have even better specs, but have you ever heard any good music in commercial PC games made on those chips (FM only)?
With good and smart programming you can get great music even out of the PSG. Many (including me) are lazy or just lack skills and stick to presets without doing any tricks or tweaks Tongue
To be honest, trackers like MB also did not give you much possibilities to experiment a lot. For that you needed something like MuSICA (MSGDRV). Smile

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